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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Rock and a hard place - My dog and new baby

707 replies

Lemondrop09 · 26/02/2017 10:29

Perhaps AIBU is the wrong place to post this, as people can be very scathing. Please be honest but gentle with me!

Sorry this is so long.....

I rescued my dog over 7 years ago, when he was 8 months old. He'll be 8 years old in a few months time. He is a large cross breed (two guard breeds) and weighs over 40kg. He was poorly bred and poorly socialised and has been mentally screwed up by his bad start. He had multiple homes in his short life before coming to us. He did not go through a proper rescue centre and if he had a proper behavioural assessment, I strongly suspect he would have been put down. He would not have been rehomable - not because he's excessively aggressive, but few rescues will home dogs with even the slightest aggression.

His aggression is fear based. He's scared of strangers and other dogs. If properly introduced to a person or another dog, he's fine. In fact, he's a total baby and as soon as you have his trust, he'll love you forever. We spent so much time and money over the years on behaviourists, trainers and socialisation classes. He improved a lot, but he will always be difficult. We always walk him on lead and usually muzzled (as a precaution, he's never actually bitten anyone, the muzzle in more in case of other dogs) and actively avoid other dogs on walks. Walking him is stressful, but we mostly get out and back without incident. We do not bother introducing him to any people he does not need to know, instead we usually shut him away when we have visitors. However if we have overnight guests, he can be successfully introduced with a bit of time and lots of sausage!

Ok, so here's the main issue. When I got him seven years ago, I was not remotely thinking about children and had also expected an 8 month old puppy to turn into a normal dog with enough effort. I underestimated how much genetics would play and that he would never be normal. I thought I could turn him around completely. I couldn't,

I am now pregnant with our first child, although it's early days. It's been a very hard time as I've had hypermesis gravardium and have been (and still am) very unwell. I haven't got out of bed in weeks, and DH is working full time, running the household and sorting out dog. We normally split the dog walking (as Neither of us enjoy doing it due to stress) but he's done it every single day without complaining, even though I know it makes him miserable. I feel awful about it.

Both my SILs and MIL have never had any time for our dog. They aren't animal people and can't forgive him for his issues. As such, we have never introduced him to them. I find them quick to judge him and they all clearly think we should simply get rid of him. Now I'm pregnant, they've already started asking us about what we're going to do. It's so upsetting that I've asked DH to tell them to lay off.

Thing is, DH and I have known for a while that we would need to make a decision eventually, and we've had circular discussions but there's no easy answer.

We've tried for this baby for over a year and it's very much wanted. It's going to be hard enough have a newborn, without the stress about whether or not our own pet will harm it. Also (a more minor issue), our dog can be demanding and pushy. When he wants a walk or food, he will pace and whine, and drive you crackers. This behaviour when I'm sleep deprived with a screaming newborn is likely to push me over the edge.

DH is likely to have to pick up the dog walking for the majority of the time, as I cannot safely walk my dog and a buggy as I need two hands if an off lead dog approaches us (I might be able to cope with a sling, but still doesn't feel safe to carry a newborn and potentially deal with a dog spat). Getting a dog walker is not really an option, as our dog needs 1:1 care from someone who can handle him. I got this dog before DH came along, he's had a very difficult dog thrust on him which he wouldn't have chosen. DH does so well with our dog, but I know he does it for me.

I've tried to consider whether it would be realistic to keep the dog separate from baby during the day? Then let the dog out with us in the evenings? Once the baby has settled and is bigger there's a chance they could be introduced carefully.

Or can they? As I said, my dog is only scared of the unknown and very good when he trusts. The home he came to before is had 3 children under 10 and he was fine with them, but that was years ago. He has never shown aggression to a child, but then again we've never let him very near to them. He's a darling with us, and I do think he has the potential to be fine with our child who will be familiar and constant to him.

But how the hell do we ever find that out? Can I really actually try introducing dog and baby, or is it too risky? I feel like it might be irresponsible to even try.

He's a big strong dog. He occasionally jumps on us if he gets excited. He's heavy and his claws are sharp. He has hurt us both without meaning to. He could easily knock a toddler over, even if being friendly.

Thing is, I love my dog. Nightmare he is, but he's my nightmare and I'm responsible for him. I never wanted to be that person to turf out their pet because a baby turned up. My worries are genuinely to do with safety and whether this situation is manageable.

Thing is, even if we decide we can't do it, he would be impossible to rehome. There are thousands of perfectly nice dogs who can't find homes. My dog will be 8 years old, with aggression issues and also expensive seasonal allergies. Literally, no one would want him. I've had professionals say to be "he's lucky he has you, because I wouldn't put up with him!". I don't want to rehome him, but even if I decide to, I really think we would struggle to find him a home. He'd hate being stuck in kennels long term as he'd be so stressed, and I fear a rescue centre would simply put him down.

If we can't keep him, and no one will take him, the only other option would be to have him put to sleep - which is unthinkable.

I feel totally stuck between a rock and a hard place. DH and I have had this conversation so many times and never come up with an answer, because there isn't one! I think deep down I know it would be difficult, if not impossible, to manage such a situation safely. But I can't bear the idea of turfing out an elderly troubled dog and where on Earth would he go?!

So please be gentle. I'm pregnant, hormonal and ill, and I love my dog very much. So please be honest, but I can't handle a flaming right now.

OP posts:
greenfolder · 27/02/2017 06:13

You know you only have 2 choices really.
Rehome
Pts
You would never forgive yourself if he injured either your child or someone else
It sounds like rehoming is something that would cause more mental harm

Creampastry · 27/02/2017 06:58

It's simple - whose life is more important - dog or baby?

Casschops · 27/02/2017 06:59

My dog is the same, she is a collie but a big gallumphing ball of fluff not keen on other dogs. We did we should give it a go. Our baby is 7 months and is part of our pack. She loves him and it was worth Dr stress. Go give it a whirl

HookandSwan · 27/02/2017 07:06

I know it's an impossible situation, but I wouldn't risk a dog like you have described around a baby. They are unpredictable and he could be jealous of the baby attention etc.

How many children and babies have been killed by dangerous dogs already? far to many.

FaintlyBaffled · 27/02/2017 07:26

I've had some horrendous rescue dogs in my youth (though admittedly none that were people aggressive)
I've always stood by the belief that there's a huge difference in having a dog put to sleep vs having a dog destroyed. It is absolutely heartbreaking and having had a young, fit and healthy dog pts because of a "what if", it's not something I would wish on my worst enemy Sad
It's easy for strangers to say PTS but your reality is far harsher. In your situation I would set a time limit, say when you're six months. If by that point you still cannot see a way forward then you can make the decision. With a deadline in mind though you may just find that you come to an acceptable compromise. If all else fails then as a PP has suggested, you let him have his best ever day and then say goodbye in the comfort and companionship of his family Sad
Huge hugs to you OP Flowers

londonrach · 27/02/2017 07:44

Im sorry op but the baby will require your full attention. It will be hard to keep dog apart from baby. Not impossible but hard. On top of that dog gets less attention. Some dogs are fine with that but sounds like yours wouldnt be. If dog cant be put with someone else i think youve only one sad choice. 💐

stonecircle · 27/02/2017 07:50

It's simple - whose life is more important - dog or baby?

Ridiculous comment. 'Simple' to kill (let's not mince words) a dog that you've had for 8 years? Because the dog might not accept the baby? Because the op might not be able to keep them apart? Because the op might not be able to carve out time during the day to walk the dog and give it some attention?

It's a very difficult situation - not a simple one.

stonecircle · 27/02/2017 07:53

Im sorry op but the baby will require your full attention

How is this possible? When I had my youngest I also had a 2 year old and a 4 year old. Simply not possible to focus on a baby 100% of the time.

DistanceCall · 27/02/2017 07:57

stonecircle, there was no risk that your toddlers might kill or maim your baby, though.

sunnyshowers · 27/02/2017 07:59

I was in the exaCt position your in. I did try behaviour specialists etc gates. ..everything really. When my dd was 1 they attacked her. I know you've a chance it'll work but it's v hard and his background is still effecting his behaviour so from what you've described it'll be awful but pts

londonrach · 27/02/2017 08:00

Stone...ill rephase that...op your first baby will take up all your attention as its a huge learning curve. Everything is strange, new. You want to just watch baby sleep as you be worried shes not sleeping right. The second less so as youve another child to look after and youve done it before and by the third baby that new baby can fed and change herself by day 2! 😂 Still say its ops first its all new to her, scary but new and exciting. The worry of the dog as well would be too much.

stonecircle · 27/02/2017 08:07

stonecircle, there was no risk that your toddlers might kill or maim your baby, though.

I certainly wouldn't leave a toddler alone with a baby - God knows what they might do!

Jenniferb21 · 27/02/2017 08:11

i couldn't just kill him for being inconvenient the problem is it isn't for convience it's for the safety of your baby. I understand that your dog feels like your baby but trust me when you have your baby in your arms they will become your absolute priority.

My colleague had a dog that was rescued it never showed any sign of agression for years. One day it attacked her daughter for absolutely no reason. Luckily she was 10 and only had scars on her arm but it was very deep and she lost a lot of bloody. My colleague has never really forgiven herself.

many vets will say that dogs are unpredictable because it is in their nature to attack if they are scared or threatened, and we don't always know what will trigger that.

Keeping the dog away in the day would not help as the dog would most likely feel rejected and would build frustration. I think it would become more aggressive.

Given the size of the dog and history of aggression I'm afraid to say I think it would be irresponsible to not ensure it is not with you by the time your baby arrives. It would be incredibly sad if you had to put him to sleep but it's better that than harm or worse coming to your baby. If that does happen and it's a last resort to put him to sleep at least you can remember he's had a great home and life for those years with you and he probably would've been put down earlier had you not of cared for him.

Just remember risks are never worth taking with babies. Attacks do happen and that case in the media a few years ago breaks my heart.

Jenniferb21 · 27/02/2017 08:12

Please read this... I read it years ago and I've never forgotten the vet's name it stuck in my mind so much so I've found the link for you... xx

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2563469/Never-EVER-trust-dog-child-As-baby-mauled-death-vet-ALL-dogs-capable-killing.html

Rock and a hard place - My dog and new baby
Skooba · 27/02/2017 08:20

To avoid the guilt and upset of having a dog put to sleep people would rather risk the health and wellbeing and lives, in some cases, of others. It is utterly selfish.

oleoleoleole · 27/02/2017 08:28

What a difficult situation. Why don't you set a time limit once the baby is born as to how long you'll give it to see if it works.

Also look for someone who may want a guard dog rather than a house dog, that might help to rehome him. I'd contact dogs trust or similar rescue centre near you for advice.

Good luck.

Thinkingblonde · 27/02/2017 08:45

My family had a dog before I was born, the family pet. They'd had her for six years and was much loved. She'd shown no signs of aggression but she was jealous of me. My mother found her ripping my baby clothes to shreds one morning, she left the rest of the families washing alone. She'd growl whenever I was around, my dad found her in my pram one day when I was in it.
My siblings were 10 and 12 when I came along after the pram incident my mother said to my brother (12) that the dog would have to go as she was a risk to the baby. My brother replied "Get rid of the baby, we had Judy before we had her".
They kept both the dog and me and Judy and I became inseparable, she was my protector and best friend.

Judy didn't have any of the aggression or issues your dog has but she still worried my parents enough for them to consider rehoming her.

Darcy88818 · 27/02/2017 08:49

I have been lurking on mumsnet for a bit but joined to give you my experience as I was in a very similar situation. I have two old rescue dogs one of which is fear aggressive to other dogs (but never people) and the other is a greyhound and I was worried the chase instinct would kick in without any thought from her. I now have a 9 month old and still have both dogs and it has all worked out well but I am very very careful.

About 2 months before the baby was due I moved the dogs into the kitchen with a dog gate and settled them in there (it's a big kitchen with a door out to the garden). That gave them enough time to get used to the new routine before the baby was here. I have then managed to follow a very similar routine to that you have planned where all day the dogs stay in the kitchen or garden but the baby goes upstairs from about 7pm and the dogs come through for the evening and get more attention. Initially one of us would be upstairs but now she goes down well so I have a video monitor on her and we both get an evening downstairs with the dogs.

my dogs have never shown the slightest interest in the baby, they are happy with this routine although the one does start to whine a bit from when dh comes home from work as he knows it's almost time to come through. I don't walk the dogs with the baby as I would not be confident dealing with any situations which might arise so that either falls to dh or I quite like to get some air in the evenings whilst he has time with the baby.

If I felt there was any risk to my daughter I would have had the dog pts as he is too old to move homes but I thought I would give it a very very careful trial first. I have to say that I would not trust any dog with a baby so I would probably have taken very similar precautions even if they were not rescue dogs and I actually stressed more about my pil terrier which everyone discounted as it was tiny and friendly but given how it kills rabbits I would not have it in the same room much to other people's disproval!
So I would say if you are confident you can keep them separate and safe then give it a try, get the dog ready in plenty of time before the baby arrives and if he can't cope with simple changes like being in a different room to you then it is not going to work but at least you will feel you have given it a try. There are compromises to be made it it may work and I would get your DH opinion too as it was your dog but he will have to make sacrifices too.

Wishing you the best whatever you decide

Thinkingblonde · 27/02/2017 08:50

Correction. * "My siblings were 10 and 12 when I came along and after pram incident"

Lemondrop09 · 27/02/2017 09:03

I know it's a minority view but I still can't actually believe that people are suggestion that I am irresponsible for getting pregnant while my dog is still alive Hmm

I would like to know how many people really put their pets first, beyond everything and at absolutely all costs - including life changing decisions such as starting a family?

I was not given honest information about my dog before he arrived with us. I had no idea about the extent of his problems, which only became apparent after a few days of owning him. Do you think I wanted a dog who I can't walk anywhere without major stress? Who has cost me literally thousands of pounds in training classes? Who I couldn't leave with anyone so I skipped holidays for years before we found an excellent kennels? Who I can't have round friends and family without military style preparation?!! Of course not, who does? I thought I was getting a young dog who had some troubles but would come around with love and training. I underestimated the impact of genetics and the missed socialisation window.

And I have lived with the consequences of that every since. And do you know why? Because I knew that dog had nowhere else to go. Because he was my responsibility now and however hard that was for me (and it's been bloody hard), it was the right thing to do. If I hadn't taken him, he would have been put to sleep as a puppy.

I've been nothing but responsible with this dog. However I draw the line at the absurd implication that I should forego starting a family because of him.

What about my DH? Do his needs not matter? He was not part of my life when I took this dog on, and as mentioned above, never wanted a pet. He does SO much for this dog (currently everything while I'm so ill), and he does it for me. Should I deny him children because he had the misfortune to roll into this dog's life? That's not fair on him.

We repeatedly thought about what we might do if we had children. I haven't got knocked up accidentally! But we had problems conceiving, and there didn't seem much point making major decisions about our aging dog when it wasn't clear if I would even get pregnant.

For the last time, I will state, I am nearly 33 and had trouble conceiving. It's totally unrealistic to put of children for another 4 years, putting me at an age which would make concieving even harder. That delay may haven't meant I would never have children and be left with a life long regret.

So stop being so bloody ridiculous. Everybody has a line - hell, some people chuck their dogs Out because they don't match their carpets! I have always put my dog first, but this is my line. I am not willing to make this compromise. Think me selfish if you will, I honestly don't care because your view is unrealistic. Feel free you go and polish your halo.....

OP posts:
monkeymamma · 27/02/2017 09:11

Oh OP. You sound so sweet and lovely that saying this feels like stamping on a kitten but...

If you hadn't adopted your dog he would have been put down. So you've essentially kept a dangerous dog alive against the best judgment of (dog-loving) professionals. He's a danger not just to your baby but the many other babies and children who will come into your home once you're a mum. (Not to mention your neighbours/postman/people you bump into when walking the dog - and if it's stressful for you and your dh - how do you think the people who encounter you must feel?)

Every time you read about a dog ripping a baby's face off (too, too often) someone has put their own feelings ahead of the safety of others.

You and your (also lovely) dh are already struggling you cannot imagine how different things are when you have a baby! When sleep deprived you do silly things including leaving safety gates open. God knows my dh and I managed yesterday to leave our back door wide open while we took the kids out for lunch and they are 5 and 2, not babies! There's no way you will be able to keep dog and baby apart and you have a potentially fatal risk sitting right there (and pp who have compared dogs and toddlers - ffs! Toddlers aren't safe left alone with babies, no, but they don't have the strength and teeth (and instinct) to do what pretty much any dog, following their true nature, is capable of (let alone a dog that you already admit is aggressive and fearful).

I know it's very very hard for you and if course you love him, but. As pp said, you've given him 8 good years more than anyone else would have or could have, please be gentle on yourself and accept he will have to be put to sleep. I'm so sorry OP :-(

I wouldn't normally post on this type of thread but with all the people piling on to say 'it'll be fine' I feel like adding my voice to the general melee might just tip the balance to the op making a decision that might actually prevent yet another horrible tragedy involving babies (& children) and dogs.

MajorSharpesButtons · 27/02/2017 09:13

This is a child safeguarding issue and should be seen as such. I'm shocked so many posters seem to think the OP should 'give it a go'

monkeymamma · 27/02/2017 09:14

Op you mention that your dog is making life hard for your dh and you feel that this is unfair because it wasn't his choice or decision... how will your child/ren feel when they can't have friends over, or have visitors, or go to certain places (including bits of their own house). Not fair on them at all. I'm saying this because before I had my eldest I honestly don't think I could see beyond the baby stage to realising how quickly they stop being babies/toddlers and start being real people with real views/needs/resentments!

CazY777 · 27/02/2017 09:18

Well said OP

CazY777 · 27/02/2017 09:30

Life circumstances can change for anyone - people get ill, have to move etc, you can't predict what will happen. My Dh had a large garden when he first got the dog and he was happy to amuse himself for hours out there. Then dh got made redundant, through no fault of his own, and lost the tied house and we have since lived in rented properties with tiny gardens as that's all we can afford. If we still lived in the old house we might have been able to keep the dog but that's life. You've given your dog a great life that he wouldn't have had otherwise, but now things have changed.