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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Rock and a hard place - My dog and new baby

707 replies

Lemondrop09 · 26/02/2017 10:29

Perhaps AIBU is the wrong place to post this, as people can be very scathing. Please be honest but gentle with me!

Sorry this is so long.....

I rescued my dog over 7 years ago, when he was 8 months old. He'll be 8 years old in a few months time. He is a large cross breed (two guard breeds) and weighs over 40kg. He was poorly bred and poorly socialised and has been mentally screwed up by his bad start. He had multiple homes in his short life before coming to us. He did not go through a proper rescue centre and if he had a proper behavioural assessment, I strongly suspect he would have been put down. He would not have been rehomable - not because he's excessively aggressive, but few rescues will home dogs with even the slightest aggression.

His aggression is fear based. He's scared of strangers and other dogs. If properly introduced to a person or another dog, he's fine. In fact, he's a total baby and as soon as you have his trust, he'll love you forever. We spent so much time and money over the years on behaviourists, trainers and socialisation classes. He improved a lot, but he will always be difficult. We always walk him on lead and usually muzzled (as a precaution, he's never actually bitten anyone, the muzzle in more in case of other dogs) and actively avoid other dogs on walks. Walking him is stressful, but we mostly get out and back without incident. We do not bother introducing him to any people he does not need to know, instead we usually shut him away when we have visitors. However if we have overnight guests, he can be successfully introduced with a bit of time and lots of sausage!

Ok, so here's the main issue. When I got him seven years ago, I was not remotely thinking about children and had also expected an 8 month old puppy to turn into a normal dog with enough effort. I underestimated how much genetics would play and that he would never be normal. I thought I could turn him around completely. I couldn't,

I am now pregnant with our first child, although it's early days. It's been a very hard time as I've had hypermesis gravardium and have been (and still am) very unwell. I haven't got out of bed in weeks, and DH is working full time, running the household and sorting out dog. We normally split the dog walking (as Neither of us enjoy doing it due to stress) but he's done it every single day without complaining, even though I know it makes him miserable. I feel awful about it.

Both my SILs and MIL have never had any time for our dog. They aren't animal people and can't forgive him for his issues. As such, we have never introduced him to them. I find them quick to judge him and they all clearly think we should simply get rid of him. Now I'm pregnant, they've already started asking us about what we're going to do. It's so upsetting that I've asked DH to tell them to lay off.

Thing is, DH and I have known for a while that we would need to make a decision eventually, and we've had circular discussions but there's no easy answer.

We've tried for this baby for over a year and it's very much wanted. It's going to be hard enough have a newborn, without the stress about whether or not our own pet will harm it. Also (a more minor issue), our dog can be demanding and pushy. When he wants a walk or food, he will pace and whine, and drive you crackers. This behaviour when I'm sleep deprived with a screaming newborn is likely to push me over the edge.

DH is likely to have to pick up the dog walking for the majority of the time, as I cannot safely walk my dog and a buggy as I need two hands if an off lead dog approaches us (I might be able to cope with a sling, but still doesn't feel safe to carry a newborn and potentially deal with a dog spat). Getting a dog walker is not really an option, as our dog needs 1:1 care from someone who can handle him. I got this dog before DH came along, he's had a very difficult dog thrust on him which he wouldn't have chosen. DH does so well with our dog, but I know he does it for me.

I've tried to consider whether it would be realistic to keep the dog separate from baby during the day? Then let the dog out with us in the evenings? Once the baby has settled and is bigger there's a chance they could be introduced carefully.

Or can they? As I said, my dog is only scared of the unknown and very good when he trusts. The home he came to before is had 3 children under 10 and he was fine with them, but that was years ago. He has never shown aggression to a child, but then again we've never let him very near to them. He's a darling with us, and I do think he has the potential to be fine with our child who will be familiar and constant to him.

But how the hell do we ever find that out? Can I really actually try introducing dog and baby, or is it too risky? I feel like it might be irresponsible to even try.

He's a big strong dog. He occasionally jumps on us if he gets excited. He's heavy and his claws are sharp. He has hurt us both without meaning to. He could easily knock a toddler over, even if being friendly.

Thing is, I love my dog. Nightmare he is, but he's my nightmare and I'm responsible for him. I never wanted to be that person to turf out their pet because a baby turned up. My worries are genuinely to do with safety and whether this situation is manageable.

Thing is, even if we decide we can't do it, he would be impossible to rehome. There are thousands of perfectly nice dogs who can't find homes. My dog will be 8 years old, with aggression issues and also expensive seasonal allergies. Literally, no one would want him. I've had professionals say to be "he's lucky he has you, because I wouldn't put up with him!". I don't want to rehome him, but even if I decide to, I really think we would struggle to find him a home. He'd hate being stuck in kennels long term as he'd be so stressed, and I fear a rescue centre would simply put him down.

If we can't keep him, and no one will take him, the only other option would be to have him put to sleep - which is unthinkable.

I feel totally stuck between a rock and a hard place. DH and I have had this conversation so many times and never come up with an answer, because there isn't one! I think deep down I know it would be difficult, if not impossible, to manage such a situation safely. But I can't bear the idea of turfing out an elderly troubled dog and where on Earth would he go?!

So please be gentle. I'm pregnant, hormonal and ill, and I love my dog very much. So please be honest, but I can't handle a flaming right now.

OP posts:
MuncheysMummy · 26/02/2017 21:52

OP this is terrifying as literally your post feels like someone has written it about me!! This was my situation to a perfect tee! Only difference being we tried for 3 years and lost a baby along the way too sadly. We did find our dog an amazing home with my parents next door neighbours who lost their dog a month before my baby was born fate sometimes has a way of helping.

NataliaOsipova · 26/02/2017 21:54

The baby and the dog aren't locked in a mortal fight to the death, people.

Isn't the point that they might be....and that, in that situation, indubitably the baby would lose?

fenneltea · 26/02/2017 21:54

The dog may well be fine when the baby arrives that is true.

It is also true that for the majority of animals new additions to the family usually cause a period of stress for the animal. In a dog that already has fear issues you've got to question whether it is right to subject the dog to that.

There is also the chance that the dog isn't alright and how would you find that out? Would it be when a toddler unexpectedly goes towards him and he reacts from fear?

I've dealt with rescue dogs all my life. My grandfather had a rescued Jack Russell Terrier that had been abused. She was tiny and hated feet but would enjoy affection and strokes.

When my grandfather passed away my mother took the dog on. All was well for the first year of my son's life, and one day my son was sat on the floor when the dog came through the door and launched at him biting his hand. The attack was completely unprovoked (obviously not in the dogs eyes) and there were four adults present. She had socialised with my son with no problems under supervision until this point.

That however was the deciding factor that she was put to sleep. This was a small dog, I dread to think what would have happened if a large breed had done the same thing.

I would say that this dog is unwell, it is mentally unwell, sadly through no fault of his own.

It isn't a case of being inconvenient, although I'm sure many dogs are disposed of because of that, it is a case of keeping everyone safe and happy, including the dog.

Dogs do need work and comitment, those with issues even more so. It isn't always in the dogs best interests to plough on in a situation that he may well find stressful, especially when the owners time and attention will be reduced by a baby.

BeaderBird · 26/02/2017 22:03

Anybody who thinks that this dog is suitable to be in a house with a child is a twat. Just my humble opinion.

BertrandRussell · 26/02/2017 22:12

It's very sad that many people who call themselves animal lovers support scenarios which cause significant stress and pain to animals. Because sentimentality.

fenneltea · 26/02/2017 22:14

Agreed Bertrand.

Sandralovesmilktray · 26/02/2017 22:18

OP your post moved me to tears as I look at my own dogs by the fire but you have no choice in my opinion.

You have given your boy a happy life in a loving home. As a previous poster has said, give him a happy day, filled with his favourite things. No 1 of these will be you. Arrange for the vet to visit to put him to sleep. Your boy will know nothing about it.

You will be heartbroken but you will know that you did the best for him every time. He was lucky you found him and rescued him from the utter misery of his first 8 months.

I am full of admiration for your perseverance with and care for your dog. No one who has really read your post can doubt your love for your dog.

Good luck with the rest of your pregnancy and the future.

BertrandRussell · 26/02/2017 22:26

My dog is mine because her previous owners thought they coudn't have children, then did. She is a well socialized, happy, well trained dog, but she is demanding and her owners just couldn't give her what she needed and give their baby what he needed as well. That is no reflection on them. It's just life.

RestlessTraveller · 26/02/2017 22:34

Shame you didn't think this through when you got this dog. But now you have it and it loves you and trusts you you're going to have to have it killed.

CazY777 · 26/02/2017 22:40

It is just life, things move on and change. My now husband got a rescue dog for his daughter way before we got together and eventually had a child of our own. The dog was great with adults and older kids, not so great with toddlers and aggressive with a lot of other dogs, crazy about cats and squirrels etc (Jack Russell cross so not big). He became 'my' dog as I ended up being the one who walked and fed him. He was ok with our daughter up until she started moving and trying to grab him, though I did find it stressful trying to keep them in different rooms or put him outside all the time. Walking on a lead with the pram was also difficult especially whenever he saw another dog. It eventually came to a head when he started growling as our daughter so my husband thought it best to rehome him. I wanted to keep him, but it really wasn't going to work, but luckily my husband's ex wife took him, and he's happy there, doesn't seem to miss me at all! If we couldn't have rehomed him we would probably have had to put him down, though I would have found it extremely difficult to agree to. Do what's best for your family.

CatsCruncher · 26/02/2017 22:43

RestlessTraveller What an incredibly insensitive thing to say.

RestlessTraveller · 26/02/2017 22:49

Insensitive? Maybe. True? Completely.

I just get so fucked of with people treating animals like they're disposable. I shouldn't have even opened the bloody thread.

Stripyhoglets · 26/02/2017 22:53

Of course it's part of being a good owner Straight talker - a dog won't know it's going to be euthanised and it's not for no reason. The dog has a history of aggression and a baby is on the way. I'd rather a dog never had the confusion if being rehomed if I were the OP. But then some people put their pets through medical treatment I'd never inflict on an animal, but that's their choice just as much as is a choice to euthanised a healthy but aggressive animal whose had a good life.

MissElizaBennett · 26/02/2017 22:56

I sympathise greatly with your dilemma, but I think there's also the question of how you would manage once the immediate baby stage is over, and you have an inquisitive toddler eager to explore his/her world, who can't always be placed out of reach of the dog.

We don't have a dog (cat people through and through I'm afraid), but we do have a cat, and thank our lucky stars that he's the soppiest, gentlest creature imaginable; our toddler is fascinated by him, and given half a chance will happily hug him tight, pick him up, grab him, yank his tail, tickle his ears, and sometimes (when the cat's very lucky) even give him a gentle stroke. Our cat just accepts it all gracefully, with no more than the occasional irritable mew. I am wondering how you feel your dog might react if your child behaved in the same way? With the best will in the world, one can't always keep a pet and a child separate; how would you manage walking such a difficult dog with a toddler in tow, for example?

As others have said, it's clear you've given you dog the best life he could possibly have had - he is very lucky to have had you as his friend. Flowers

PageStillNotFound404 · 26/02/2017 23:07

I'm not seeing any of the people appalled at the very idea of having the dog PTS offering to take it.

mumontherun14 · 26/02/2017 23:07

I have a rescue fearful dog too and can imagine the love and care and help you must have had to give your dog. Our wee dog came from Romania and had a really rough start. My kids are older 10 and 8 and we've done puppy training, behaviourist home visits, agility, one to ones and groups to help my wee dog and she still needs constant supervision -my kids are older 10 and 8 and she is great with them but I am very wary of her with other people's children and would normally have her in her crate and let her out after a while and then keep a close eye on her. The behaviourist we have had been really really good -I wonder if you got the right behaviourist then they might talk everything through with you, observe your dog in your home and help you make the right decision. I really feel for you xxxx

unfortunateevents · 26/02/2017 23:22

I'm not seeing any of the people appalled at the very idea of having the dog PTS offering to take it - but even if someone was offering to take the dog, OP has already stated that he isn't suitable for rehoming anywhere else.

BeaderBird · 26/02/2017 23:33

They are disposable when it comes to protecting a child's life. I adore my animals but I sensibly value human life more than I do theirs.

chitofftheshovel · 26/02/2017 23:40

restless not true at all. Absolutely no need for that bitchy comment. Do one.

Trifleorbust · 27/02/2017 01:57

PageStillNotFound404: I have a small baby, work full time (when not on mat leave) and don't particularly want a dog - of course I'm not offering an unsuitable home! What's your point?

Spybot · 27/02/2017 02:40

Lemon drop, you've said that he's been with kids in the past with no issues. It will most likely be fine. Dogs love a family and he will see your baby as part of his. If you are worried about his routine after the baby, try and make some adjustments now and see how he does. I've had dogs and babies and I had the same worries. My old dog was a real neurotic type but it was fine. Take on board the idea of crate training, I have always used crates for more control and it is also a safe place for the dog to chill out. It is never to late to introduce a crate.

sibys1 · 27/02/2017 03:10

I absolutely think you should have waited before TTC, but that horse has bolted.

If the dog did attack the baby then, not only would you likely have a dead baby and a dead dog but, given its past history of aggression, you could well be criminally liable.

Start trying to rehome now.

HerBluebiro · 27/02/2017 04:05

Noone used the word hunz here except you straighttalker.

But yes human life trumps dog life. I will accept that this is not a viewpoint adhered to by everyone. But those who truly don't believe this to be the case do not keep pets. Recognising that to do so is to treat an animal as lesser to humans.

This is not a miniscule risk. This dog is not the same as your rescue dog. Nor mine. This is a reactive guard breed dog. With the ability to kill an adult. A toddler would have no chance.

People who choose sentiment over safety are the ridiculous ones. Those who are unwilling to make the hard choices are being childish. Even more so when berating another for making a sensible choice.

This isn't your child at risk. And it never will be from this dog because op is a responsible dog owner. Not swayed by sentiment. She hires a field. She walks him muzzled. She has him trained. He trusts her. Part of that trust is doing the right thing by him. And that is not introducing him to her baby.

HerBluebiro · 27/02/2017 04:16

Restless as the op states she did think it through when she got the dog. She thought the dog would come around.

She was wrong.

But it is also clear that she tried. And tried properly. You cannot negate genetics and the first 8 months of life.

She also thought she wouldn't have children. She was wrong there too. We change our minds about such things.

You thought you shouldn't open the thread. You were right. But you did anyway.

The dog does trust her. It is right that she makes the hard choices. That is part of responsible dog ownership.

I wish more did so. Then I wouldn't have to pick up the pieces of so many families who didn't.

Heartshappedsunglasses · 27/02/2017 05:25

I haven't read all the replies but I have a dog who can be wild but is no way like yours.
Give it a go.do all the standard bringing home a babygro from hospital with the scent, toy for dog, sausages for treats. get a decent carrier for walks so your hands are free- local sling meets to try out and show you how to put them on.
Just take it one day at a time, anyone local who can help with dog or sitting with baby so you can walk dog on his own so he gets some one to one. I think you have to give it a go, I would feel guilty for not giving it a go.