Is DS being excluded because of his disability ?

[youcantgettome]

I hope not.

So my DS has language difficulties and Autism. He is 7. I joined him into our local football training, I was a bit apprehensive because DS hasn't played football ! (Has an odd kick of the ball) and I didn't know how the team would take to him. But anyway I went along with it.

To my surprise, when I took DS to football, he was engaged in the game. He was playing around, kicking the ball or tying to get hold of the ball to kick it. Though, when the coach was giving out instructions he found it hard to follow, didn't really join in the warm-up as he has slow language processing...so when the coach was shouting at exercises.. DS would process the information and do the instruction but the coach and the others kids have moved on to the next exercises instruction. Ifyswim.

But other than that, I was amazed how DS did in the match...he was throwing the ball appropriately, kicking it, stopping when the players stop it. I was proud as before he would of found these difficult.

But after the session, the coach told me that maybe it would be better for DS to go to a specialist football team (there's hardly any) as its due to his understanding of language or processing of language is slow. Also, he cannot provide the attention DS needs and he has to attend to all the other kids.

I do understand but I felt a bit deflated. DS in my eyes, did excellent as he has never played footie ever ! Plus his social skills difficulties etc... he seemed he did ok. But I don't know, should we look elsewhere ? Should I give up on DS doing football ? I told a friend this and she was shocked and thinks DS was excluded because of his disability ? But I've heard that football is quite competitive so the coaches naturally are ?? Idk.

What do you mumsnetters think ?

It's sad to see the attitude on this thread to volunteer football coaches who give up their time to coach children with genuine ability to play football. Coaches are often people who themselves have played football at a decent level, who channel their knowledge and enthusiasm into teaching these children what they know. They don't get paid. They are not running a crèche for children to just come along to kick a ball around if they have no ability or talent for the game.

Cowgirls - God absolutely. I coach because I bloody love the game and want to ensure at grassroots it survives and flourishes. I more meant as a risk to his safety. Currently he plays and loves tag rugby which I will facilitate him continuing. The leap to tackling from 8 to 9 is big though. Introducing hold tackles for example and needing to hear ref's and coaches instructions.

It will be tricky - acoustics on a pitch aren't great for anyone.

Jaques it's quite obvious, you implied that you were doing full contact with 8 year olds entirely on your own.
I think that your attitude to inclusion is very poor and even more so given that you apparently don't even have a policy at your club. You should have at least considered this and gone through it on the coaching courses.

Live your attitude is nasty, you would not be welcome at our club, in fact we had to get rid of one of our rugby coaches who thought like you.

It does depend on the situation.

Problem is if the coach is basically on their own then he has to keep control. I know with 7yo boys concentration can go very quickly and descend into no one getting anything done. Someone not quite keeping up can be that distraction that ends up being the group losing concentration.

There's also the problem of children commenting. Children can be very harsh about someone not keeping up. And yes, the coach can handle it a certain amount, but it can be very difficult keeping the children not saying anything.

He may also be looking towards the future. If he can see that he'll be saying next year (and 8yo is when it's getting serious round here) that sorry your ds isn't up to it, then that would be worse for my children, to start, make friends she then be told they're not up to it.

Plus, to you he was keeping up fine, he may have not being in the more experienced eyes of the coach. Sorry.
I've both coached a sport and more recently been involved in performing arts. I've lost count of the number of conversations I've had where a parent has thought their child is wonderful when they're actually struggling and in some cases causing issues with others.
If the parent is up front with me about a disability and gives me ways of coping then I will do my utmost best to fight for their right to have reasonable adjustment. Reasonable adjustment does have to make sure I can keep the other children safe and occupied. If I have 10 children and one child takes 25% of my time the other children miss out. I have to assess whether that is reasonable adjustment. I might decide at that level it is. I wouldn't feel it fair if it was 50%.

Finally, I have a child who is physically disabled. (missing her hand)
It is perfectly reasonable for me to expect her to be able to access sport. It is not reasonable for me to expect her to be in the squad/festival team etc if she is not up to the standard of the others in it.
For example, she does dancing. RAD's disability position is rubbish. I've argued with them. They don't see the problem; it basically equates to them marking her down in exams. Their response is basically don't do exams then.
This is unreasonable as she is perfectly able with three limbs able to do everything as well as any other child. It isn't hard for them to make an adjustment which would be fair.
Hence one reason why I'm glad she doesn't do ballet any more.

She also does gym. She loves it, and her gym is brilliant for her. It would not be reasonable for me to insist she was on the squad. She has done individual competitions, but if she did the group competitions it would cause their marks, and hence positioning, to be lowered.

I'm afraid I haven't had time to read all the thread yet but just wanted to mention that our local professional team runs groups for children and young adults with various disabilities at a couple of sports centres in the area. They are quite popular apparently (ds hasn't been as it clashes with his riding lessons). Maybe your local team does something like that? Might be worth a look on their website.

We had a similar problem when dd was learning to swim. I signed her up for a beginners class and the first lesson was really proud of her as she got in the water and really tried to join in (she does have dyspraxia and aspergers traits but we didn't know that then). About the third week in the instructor asked us to leave as the other parents were complaining that dd was getting 'too much attention' (I honestly don't think she was getting much special attention). I said 'but it's for beginners' and the instructor said 'Oh the others have already done ten weeks'. I was livid as I had to argue the case that I'd been mislead in order to get my money back for the rest of the course and it did dd's confidence no good at all.
So I do get how disappointed you are OP.

That's good to hear Jacques I've seen some coaches taking huge risks with young players safety. I expect there to be huge amounts of instances of CET in former players in years to come coupled with the inevitable claims for compensation.

Apologies if my post wasn't absolutely clear.

But you know we can't work miracles. In an ideal world we'd be groaning under the weight of volunteers. But we're not. So we do our best.

I am genuinely not sure what the answer is - case in point the 8 year old who's profoundly deaf. Ok now when he plays tag/learns to tackle a bag. But maybe not so much in a contact match.

I really wish I had all the answers.

Thanks for deleting my last post MNHQ. Glad to see that you're so supportive of the numerous examples of broken equality legislation on this thread.

FWIW: EA rules:
What is an association covered by the Act?
The Act defines an association as an organisation that:
• has 25 or more members, and
• has rules (not necessarily formal or written) regulating who can be a member and there is a genuine selection process for members.
Examples of associations include private clubs such as golf and other sports clubs, ex-forces clubs, alumni clubs, social clubs, working men’s clubs, gaming clubs and drinking clubs.

You can't exclude a child because they're disabled. It's against the law.

However, here are just some of the disablist comments you've allowed to stands, even though they're supporting the football club acting illegally:

"He may just feel he doesn't have the time or the training to give your son the attention he needs."
"He was honest with you, he was clear that he cannot cater to your child's needs because of the amount of other children in the squad and offered a solution. I'm not sure of the problem here."
" It could just be the coach feels he wants to give equal attention to all the players during practice? It's not necessarily that he doesn't want to be inclusive."
"Yes, the coach may feel out of his depth. Tbh, I have friends whose kids have ASD and when interacting with them, I do at times feel a bit exasperated, not in a bad way."
"This isn't about being 'disablist'. There are children who are not disabled, who are not particularly good at football, who will also not be included in the team."
As another poster has has:
People pointing out he is a volunteer, this doesn't mean he can just ignore equal opportunities.
I'm a cub leader, we include everyone. We've had kids with all sorts of SEN, colostomy bags, awful allergies, wheelchairs etc. Everyone is accepted. If we feel we can't cope, we get mum or dad to attend a few sessions to help us understand how to help these kids.

This is not a selective team. There are no trials. The OP's DS has been rejected because he has SN.

And I might fucking swear just because I'm so pissed off at MN deleting my last post.

With regards to planning for the future, there is no possible way that this can be decided with eight year olds.
Our rising stars at the age of 10,11,12 are really nothing special at the age of 17. We have several playing for national youth teams who were not showing any skill at such a young age.

These are bloody 8 year olds. This is why a code of conduct had to be introduced for parents and coaches.

LimeBubbles but if the coach has seen, in one session, that it's not going to be the right fit, why shouldn't he speak up then? Perhaps he just wanted to flag up to the OP that it might not be the best fit and didn't intend it to be a "he's not welcome" message and more of a "Perhaps this isn't the best suited group for him"? If he felt that even with adjustments it was going to be too hard for him to keep up?

We've had kids come to training sessions and they just want a kick around and aren't interested in actually playing in a team/league or any of the structured activities and we've told their parents at the end of the session that from what we've seen from their child that this might not be the club for them. Obviously we are more than happy to give a child a few sessions to settle in to the routine, but we know that we've flagged it up early so that if in 6 weeks time their child is still struggling, we can say that nothing has changed from our initial assessment and think he'd be better suited at one of the instead?

YCGTM - OK so you felt the drills were fast paced, that's a normal pace for football! Drills are multipurpose, and are to help kids prepare for the speed of a game ... okay so they're not going to suffer if it slows down a little bit but it's also not always practical - in a game kids have to make quick decisions, move quickly with the ball and these skills are started at the youngest levels (even if the competitivenss isn't) and the coach might be struggling to figure out how to make adjustments to his usual drills enough to allow your son to participate fully.

I can also see why the coach might have been a bit unsure about you joining in - yes your son has SEN but it's going to throw the rest of the group off to have a random adult getting involved in their group with no explanation ... also maybe the coach was worried that you were going to be helicopter parenting and interrupting during the session, either to ask him to adjust activities or even if you are supporting your son but doing it in a way that disrupts the group as a whole.

JigglyTuff this thread is full of the most outrageous comments. It really is everyone for themselves.

witch I did post up thread that I understand the DS may not have been good in the coaches. I knew DS would struggle as I did notice the language demands in the warm up and thought oh my goodness how is he going to keep up.
Though took a surprise when the match began.

I was just happy that despite DD difficulties he managed well. But in the coach's eyes, DS didn't do what he expect to his standards.

I don't want DS to be part of some league professional thing. If his very good at it , why not ? But I just want him to get into active he sport he enjoys, widen his social circle and interests.

Oh and the thing I forgot to add is this - from sportscoach.uk

Search

Coaching people from all backgrounds and with all abilities should be part and parcel of being a coach. Your ability to differentiate, to individualise your coaching, is what makes you a great coach.

Coaching people with different abilities and goals makes your job or role a whole lot more interesting as you are pushing yourself and your own abilities further. Ensuring that every participant, athlete or player that attends your session, irrespective of their level, receives the same levels of respect and support should be your responsibility as their coach.

I'm afraid that making things accessible for all may cost a little more. It may mean that neurotypical children miss out. But that cannot be at the expense of children who aren't. That's what equality legislation is about. Yes, we all know it's expensive. But it's a cost that clubs need to build in so that they're not breaking the law.

Foxes, you have taken my post out of context. I did not say OP was whinging. I was highlighting that I didn't whinge in my particular situation. Clearly the OP wasn't whinging, but was disappointed her DS didn't get the opportunity to continue to play with this particular team. I have suggested that there are other alternatives if he likes playing football, as my DS also encountered the same problems. Most sports centres have weekly indoor 'for fun' junior football sessions, which doesn't involve competitive football matches, and where children of all abilities are welcome. There are also clubs where they have two or three teams which might accommodate children with lower ability.

Foxes - is that post to me? I am planning for the future because I would bloody love to make it work for him.

We're not a selective team. I don't care about winning/losing.

I care about instilling a love of the game. Teaching skills and above all keeping any child under my supervision safe.

Chelsea FC have fantastic youth teams for children with disabilities. My friend takes her little boy who is 7. He has a range of difficulties including autism and it has built his confidence so much- and hers! They train at Cobham.

I really hope you can find a supportive coach OP who can support your ds.

mel Nope I'm very considerate and not a helicopter parent . I didn't disturb the coach once whilst he was training. When DS was finding the warm up pace difficult, I did a few then stop as I thought the coach may not like that. I didn't intervene at all when DS was playing in the match, I let the coach have full control as it's his team to coach.

Of course it's fast paced, I'm not silly and I know it's normal for it to be like that. I felt it was fast passed for DS. I'm not a silly parent. I know my child limitations and know how to extend them.

www.chelseafc.com/the-club/foundation/foundation-development/foundation-disability.html

The problem with football is it is a team sport and each player relies on the others to have a certain level of skill and ability.

OP - Perhaps you should look for individual sports, like gymnastics, where the kids aren't reliant on one another to win.

Actually OP - not sure if something like this exists in football but I also help out with mixed ability tournaments in rugby although I have only had experience with adults.

Might be worth looking into?

Oh that was terrible quoting etc. Hopefully it makes sense.

Thanks Foxes :)

Funny think jacques I was thinking next to do rugby for DS. But was scared about the tackling. The thing is DS is very good with visual targets, like a ball, the goal is to get the ball, pass it to someone and target it somewhere.

Try it 😊

There are clubs who have tag teams for every age group too if you're worried about tackling. Bear in mind tackling and holding in the tackle is only introduced in under 9s.

Most kids find leathering a tackle bag the best fun ever (as do I!!)

YCGTM Sorry, that was badly worded, I wasn't trying to suggest you were helicopter parenting, just that from the coach's point of view, he doesn't know that you won't, esp if you've jumped in at the beginning of the session without telling him up front iyswim?

It's one thing if you'd asked at the start of the session whether it would be OK if you helped your DS out if he was struggling since it was all new to him, but if you just started getting involved at the start of the session without mentioning it to him then he might have been distracted by it being out of the norm or wondering if you were going to be doing that for the entire session and future sessions etcetc

Also, yes it was fast paced for DS but it was normal pace for the rest of the kids in the session, so slowing things down to a normal pace for your son may have been far to slow for the other kids and would have lost their concentration ... and the coach can't be expected to immediuately be able to make reasonable adjustments to accomodate that and may have been wondering how he would accommodate your son's needs when they did actually start to include more complex/fast paced activities.