Is DS being excluded because of his disability ?

[youcantgettome]

I hope not.

So my DS has language difficulties and Autism. He is 7. I joined him into our local football training, I was a bit apprehensive because DS hasn't played football ! (Has an odd kick of the ball) and I didn't know how the team would take to him. But anyway I went along with it.

To my surprise, when I took DS to football, he was engaged in the game. He was playing around, kicking the ball or tying to get hold of the ball to kick it. Though, when the coach was giving out instructions he found it hard to follow, didn't really join in the warm-up as he has slow language processing...so when the coach was shouting at exercises.. DS would process the information and do the instruction but the coach and the others kids have moved on to the next exercises instruction. Ifyswim.

But other than that, I was amazed how DS did in the match...he was throwing the ball appropriately, kicking it, stopping when the players stop it. I was proud as before he would of found these difficult.

But after the session, the coach told me that maybe it would be better for DS to go to a specialist football team (there's hardly any) as its due to his understanding of language or processing of language is slow. Also, he cannot provide the attention DS needs and he has to attend to all the other kids.

I do understand but I felt a bit deflated. DS in my eyes, did excellent as he has never played footie ever ! Plus his social skills difficulties etc... he seemed he did ok. But I don't know, should we look elsewhere ? Should I give up on DS doing football ? I told a friend this and she was shocked and thinks DS was excluded because of his disability ? But I've heard that football is quite competitive so the coaches naturally are ?? Idk.

What do you mumsnetters think ?

Holowiwi - I do volunteer actually. For an inclusive children's arts charity. We work with children with multiple disabilities, behaviourial issues together with NT children.

I think it's because I've seen at first hand the benefits to all the children of working as a team to create something together that I'm so passionate about it.

Any coaches on this thread who want to ensure that they are acting within the bounds of the law would do well to read this: www.sportscoachuk.org/coaches/resource-bank/inclusion-and-diversity-coaching which I quoted from last night but didn't link to.

They even have a factsheet specifically to help coaches work more effectively with children with ASC: www.sportscoachuk.org/sites/default/files/3.%20Autism%20factsheet_0.pdf

Presumably the volunteer coaches on here have had training? So I'm mystified as to why you haven't been taught about the Equality Act and the responsibilities you have under the Act. Being a volunteer does not mean the law doesn't apply to you.

youcantgettome - I think it would be worth contacting some of the organisations listed on that site: www.sportscoachuk.org/site-tools/about-us/our-commitment-equality/useful-equality-links

No one is actually saying that OPs son should be excluded at football just because he has SNs. Obviously, being disabled should not be a barrier to doing anything if you want to do it. Just saying that teams should have a right to not have a player on their team, SNs or not, where it might compromise the coaching and enjoyment of the other players. It would be wonderful if teams had a spare body to devote to coaching someone who needs the extra attention, but most junior clubs struggle to retain one coach. It's similar to school parent groups, where lots of parents have opinions on how the school is run, but ask them to volunteer to actually get involved with helping the school, and more often than not they run a mile. Same situation with junior football clubs unfortunately.

Yes I'm really fighting here

LiveLove I think the thing with groups and sports like football is that a lot of people assume that all clubs will, when it boils down to it, the same but they aren't, and the focus of each club will be different in the youth levels but ultimately most clubs, whether amateur or professional, will have an aim that children rise up through the ranks of the youth team to play in the senior team at a competitive level ... the only difference is the point at which the competitive and selective part of the coaching kicks in, and that will be different for every club.

Our club is a very relaxed and definitely amateur club ... but we do play in local leagues and cup competitions, so there does have to be some form of competitiveness and the training sessions are structured even in the youth levels ... other local clubs only have their youth teams compete in the legue or the cup competitons so they are a bit more flexible with players and their training sessions are a few structured skill activities and a lot of free-play games, other clubs again don't play in the leagues or cup competitions until they are at older age levels and so the youngest teams literally just have a mixed ability kick around session once a week, and then once they get to about Under 10s they start to increase structure to sessions and compete in competitions.

Then there are football courses run at the local comminuty centre that are basically just soccer skills groups that are not affiliated with any of the local clubs but purely for fun/improving skills. If parents come to our club and say that their child wants to join but has never played before, obviously we will welcome them but we do also suggest that they send their child to a soccer skills course first to make sure they are actually going to enjoy it - as the skills courses are based on improving and working on each player's individual abilities and they usually have a few coaches available during sessions than a normal football club coaching session, and so their child is more likely to get more chance of individual attention within a group setting.

Not every child is going to be suited to every club - whether they have a SEN or are NT - and it's a case of finding a club to suit your child, which may mean trying half a dozen different ones till you find the right fit. It's not unusual for parents to shop around different clubs for a season or two before they settle on the one that's right for their child, and it can be for all sorts of reasons, not just disability or ability.

There are a lot of people in this thread with utterly appalling attitudes to children with disability.

I bet you all think you're so right on and inclusive, yes?

Right up until it inconveniences you in the slightest tiny way. Then your true disablist face shows and you're not even slightly ashamed of yourselves?

You should be. Inclusion isn't some nice to have utopia, it's the law and with attitudes like those shown on this thread it's easy to see why it's needed.

Just because the op's son initially took time to process instructions that doesn't mean that once he grasps the concept of what is expected of him he couldn't be a very good footballer. Social communication issues are not a marker of physical ability.

With a little bit of initial input, reasonable adjustment under the law, the op's son could have given it a real go. Then if he found it's not for him or his understanding not progressing the ongoing situation could be reviewed. It's not an excuse to not even let him try.

. Just saying that teams should have a right to not have a player on their team, SNs or not, where it might compromise the coaching and enjoyment of the other players.

Jeezo

Bishop has just said, far more articulately than I ever could, exactly what needed to be said.

Bishop is right.

Am actually not fighting here, but those attitudes are disgusting.

Inclusion isn't some nice to have utopia, it's the law

Isn't it "reasonable adjustment" that's law though? I was pondering this to myself. If a playiner in a wheelchair wanted to join a football team, they would not have to include them surely as reasonable adjustment cannot be made?

Which isn't to say that reasonable adjustment could not be made for the OP's DS, this was just a general musing on my part.

Reasonable adjustment would mean giving a child with language processing difficulties more than one session to see how he coped IMO.

Bishop; this isn't just about being excluded from a football team for being SNs or disabled. The situation applies to ALL children who are not particularly good at a sport. My DS is not SNs and has been in exactly the same situation "sorry liveLove, your son isn't good enough for this team; maybe try another club". The club is not being disablist just because OPs DS has delayed behaviour to instructions, and maybe doesn't have the necessary talent for this particular team, so is advised to try another team. Why not just try another more relaxed club/team?

. My DS is not SNs and has been in exactly the same situation "sorry liveLove, your son isn't good enough for this team; maybe try another club".

The whole.point of equality is NOT equal treatment its making adjustments so thst people arent compromised by their disability. Ie by being not good enough for any tram.

Err team

Or why not give a child with a language processing problem more than one session to see if he would be able to manage?

How can you make adjustments for a child who has delayed processing of information? This is a condition of OPs DS disability, and the only way an adjustment could be made would presumably be to slow the training session right down whilst having to focus on making sure one child is listening to instructions. Like any sport, there are health and safety aspects, which mean you have to have the interests of the safety of all the players at heart. By one person having to focus too much on one player, it will compromise the safety of all the players. Maybe if Op or her DH took on the responsibility of being involved at the sessions, by giving DS one on one attention alongside the coach, it might help a lot. But the coach will not be getting paid for doing his job, and I would guess would not be able to recruit another unpaid person to focus on the one child. There are so many alternatives; councils run lots of sports events for mixed ability, and in some situations, SNs. Lots of clubs will accommodate players of all abilities.

I think OP has exactly the right attitude - move on. There really are enough battles as a family with SN children and this isnt worth being one of them. Whatever his reasons the coach has decided the team isnt suitable for her DS, so she has moved on and hopefully found other possibilities.

Reasonable adjustment would mean giving a child with language processing difficulties more than one session to see how he coped IMO.

Yes, I know and I said that this was general musing and that I thought reasonable adjustment could have been made in the case of the OPs son.

I have no beef with super selective sports teams and wanting to be the best of that means that every child who wants to take part has to have a trial to qualify. SN or not. That's exclusivity in an inclusive way. But this is a kids football team supposedly open to all. The other kids haven't had to endure the coach deciding whether or not hey can be bothered coaching them.

Once again, being a volunteer doesn't exclude you from meeting your obligations under the law under the Equalities Act. If you are a volunteer who finds keeping within the law too hard then maybe it's not for you.

More prosecutions need to happen imho.

Yes, I know and I said that this was general musing and that I thought reasonable adjustment could have been made in the case of the OPs son

I wasn't having a pop at you Soup

LiveLove first of all, OPs son isn't "not listening", he has a language processing delay, so IMO giving him a few sessions to see if he manages would be the fairest thing to do.

All the ablesplaining from parents of NT kids explaining why kids with SN should suck up not being welcome is not great either.

Bishop - that was my main question though. Surely - for us as a non selective team - reasonable adjustment would mean we had considered whether a child with a specific additional need could safely join and whether it would be too high a risk for him.

Kind of moot for me anyway but that's what I was trying to get across.

Youcant I have noticed when I googled local football teams, than they have an under 7s group like a beginner team for those starting out. Have you considered your son joining one of those, because of my daughters needs, she does the younger children's dance sessions, which are slower and more flexible. Just so he can get used to developing his skills, and getting used to following instructions. Ask the coaches about it when you contact them. I had no problem with my daughter doing this, as it meant that she was not pressured and could go at a more easy going pace.

Once again, being a volunteer doesn't exclude you from meeting your obligations under the law under the Equalities Act. If you are a volunteer who finds keeping within the law too hard then maybe it's not for you.

The law requires reasonable adjustment nit free access to all for everything. Most groups manage to achieve that, I know ours do. But I can't condemn groups desperate for volunteers who would have to close because they don't have the resources.

Jacques - it's ok to have a discussion with the parent along the lines of "these are the things we are going to be doing this season, can we have a chat about how we best accommodate your DC." In my view may also be OK to ask for a confirmation letter from the child's medical professional sometimes to confirm that the DC is safe to participate in the activity, depending on what the additional need is. I think most parents would welcome this sort of conversation if it's clear that participation is the mutual objective.

So for example a child I know has EDS (hyper mobility) and it's not safe for him to play full contact rugby. He wears tags so he can participate without being tackled in school sport. I think that he isn't able to compete in matches with other schools (I'm not 100% sure about this).

My son has various reasonable adjustments around his medical equipment (e.g. wearing body armour to protect his cannula sites, time during half time to conduct blood tests, etc), but is able to participate fully. These adjustments are agreed in advance with opposing teams.

What would be discriminatory would be to exclude either of these children on the basis of their disability.

why not give a child with a language processing problem more than one session to see if he would be able to manage?

How would that help? his language processing disorder isn't going to disappear is it?