AIBU to think that flexible, family-friendly jobs do not exist.

[MothersRuinart]

A job where you don't get penalised for having to stay home with a sick child, either by having to use annual leave or take unpaid leave. A job where you can leave earlier or start later at a short notice and be able to work up the lost hours another time. A job that would allow you to work from home regularly and/or often and/or at short notice. A company or a work environment that doesn't resent you for having to miss workdays due to childcare issues. Where you're not overlooked for a promotion because you're a parent.

I've never worked for a company like that, neither have any of my friends as far as I know. Tbf, most problems would be solved if more companies allowed their staff to work from home more often or were more flexible with their hours.

I understand that there are jobs where flexibility is not an option but I think most jobs could be much more flexible than they are now.

One of my members of staff struggled to get in for 9 (more like 930) but absolutely had to leave at 3 on the dot to do school pickup. It might have made sense for her to be contracted for 10-3 but she didn't want the drop in salary so she ended up leaving.

I am fairly flexible but would expect the time to be made up at some stage and the flexibility to work both ways.

I'm a self employed interpreter so my job is amazing for short bookings that pay well. There's also plenty of weekend and evening work too. I am very lucky have flexible family members on hand for childcare, though.

Many paid jobs are not like that though, I've had jobs that I have had to work like fury before taking time off to clear the decks and think ahead- colleagues only dealing with urgent or simple stuff when I am away- then coming back after a week to face a huge backlong- often working unpaid overtime thereafter to get back on an even keel

Me too, but that's not a "pro" in the work from home box by default! You're not better off trying to get your work done from home while looking after a sick child

On the occasions I have to work from home ,eg snow this week, I don't find it productive. Working on the laptop is nowhere near as efficient as on the dual screen PC at work, and I end up "just" putting a wash on, or just doing a quick tidy up and if dh is home he has the radio on or keeps interrupting me. I had one member of staff working from home one day a week as she has a long commute, but I had to ask her to start coming into the office that day as we were short of bodies and she has said she is getting much more work done now ( I've noticed that too!)

I agree camelfinger, my work is great for saying "yes" to my requests, but I also say "yes" as much as I can when they need help. Some people don't want to cut it both ways, I also had someone that started later to do school drop and she made no efford to make herself good value for the time she did do, it was barely worth having her there TBH. After her they stopped offering later starts, which is a shame.

"He never gets asked about childcare at interviews, he asks about flexibility and always gets a positive response. Every single sodding interview I go for I get asked"

That's illegal. I know it does happen, but it's illegal. Just saying.

That's illegal. I know it does happen, but it's illegal. Just saying it is, it's not on, but reading the multiple threads on the issue on MN gives you a clue as to why they do - men who work from home won't even put on a wash and go to another room and expect no distraction while the mother minds the kids, and women working from home don't want to use childcare or expect their partners to be home to mind the house/kids.

Its a generalisation, but in most cases, that's what happens! A lot of women (including the OP) want to work from home without childcare! Few men work from home that way.

Ts not illegal

I'm public sector and I have seen the move toward flexible arrangements, formal and informal, over the last fifteen years; and it's good, though there are, in the nature of things, a few piss-takers.

But if you really accept that flexible is for everyone and is a two-way street then there will be times when you can't get to the nativity play because a colleague without children has arranged to leave early, having worked late the last two days, and you won't know why and you jsut ahve to accept it.

Ts not illegal
it is if they're only asking the women
but it's not illegal to write in childcare clauses to contracts/agreements that allow for working from home, so long as the same clauses are expressed to everyone.
That's what many workplaces are having to do now, because working from home can save money but saving on childcare shouldn't be included in that

But if you really accept that flexible is for everyone and is a two-way street then there will be times when you can't get to the nativity play because a colleague without children has arranged to leave early, having worked late the last two days, and you won't know why and you jsut ahve to accept it

Indeed!
I'm working mothers day this year because people who have big plans for it have asked for it off. That's fine, I'm getting all of DDs dance performances off and get to go to her award assemblies.

That's the reality of flexible working. You gotta cover other peoples flexible requests too

I also worked all of this half term just gone (and used childcare for it) so that colleagues who had holidays booked could have the whole week off.

I have one of those magic civil service type jobs. I can't take time off on a whim, anymore than anyone else in any other job can. But I can plan to take a flexi day/half day around say, Mother's Day Assembly, or where workload has meant I have built up time,

Sick children is unpredictable, but would be unpredictable however I covered it. With flexitime, my employer still gets those hours from me, if they havn't already.

Sick children is unpredictable

Too right. And there can never be a guarantee that someone else will be free to cover when it happens.

I remember when I was young and single and had to argue over an application for a week's leave in August for the Three Choirs Festival.

The thing is, Andrew, we normally reserve school holidays for people with children at school, can't you go some other time?

No, you numpty, that's when the event happens!

i got my way in the end but it should not have been a struggle.

MothersRuinart jobs like that do exist. I work for a FTSE 100 company and can pretty much do everything you've mentioned.

But the key is not abusing the privilege so it stays in place. I flex for my boss, my boss is happy for me to flex back. I've only had to use my paid dependent leave twice in 12 months because of the flexible way we work together (both times were a child with D&V...all the will in the world isn't enough to make working from home at the same time as that possible).

I'm paid well, development opportunities never pass me by (I purposefully avoid promotion because my legacy contract would have to change) and crucially I actually enjoy my job and the people I work with.

I do appreciate though how lucky I am and that many jobs just don't lend themselves to work that is based on deadlines rather than constant presence.

Mine is pretty flexible. 80% time, can juggle drop offs and pickups with dh, flexitime and work from home. So often I'm online at 5:30 in the morning to be able to leave in time to pickup Ds.
It's not perfect, it it works ok and is well paid (technical management/project manager/scientific role... my chargeout rate for the company is about 300 quid an hour although of course I only get a tiny fraction of that!)

dementedma On the occasions I have to work from home ,eg snow this week, I don't find it productive. .....I end up "just" putting a wash on, or just doing a quick tidy up and if dh is home he has the radio on or keeps interrupting me

But that's you- we all work in different ways. I like having an " integrated approach" to working- it suits my style. I tend to work in bursts, focus on work for a couple of hours, hang laundry, do an hour of paperwork, put a meal in the oven, another half an hour of work, some days I focus entirely on work, and we eat freezer meals, most days work is picked up and down, I like that pace and the mix.
I can get out, go to the gym, work evenings, weekends, during the day- whenever I have time and space or the mood takes me,

But that's you- we all work in different ways. I like having an " integrated approach" to working- it suits my style. I tend to work in bursts, focus on work for a couple of hours, hang laundry, do an hour of paperwork, put a meal in the oven, another half an hour of work, some days I focus entirely on work, and we eat freezer meals, most days work is picked up and down, I like that pace and the mix

I'm the same, but you can't really get stuck into the "bursts" if you're using your work from home days to scrimp on childcare, which is what a lot of women think they can do if they get work from home arrangements

I have no pre school age children, so I am lucky. I work longer hours during school term.

My job as an academic is like this.

My job is like this, and my employer really looks after parents IMO.

I work in private sector, for a FTSE 100 company.

I think they were nominated for a MN family friendly award too.

So there are jobs out there like this!

I'm a nurse and have a very flexible job but it's definitely unusual in the NHS! I'm a part time research nurse and as long as I work my 18.5 hours I can work when I want. I mostly see patients in their own homes so I make appointments to suit me. I can sometimes do my admin work from home although I'm usually in the office.
It's not always easy to juggle and obviously if I did need to take time off to look after sick children etc then I'm letting my patients down so I try not to, plus some colleagues seem to think I'm available all week so plan meetings or ask me to present at something on days I don't normally work, but luckily I have a flexible childminder so can usually manage to work it out.
The downside is that I can never change jobs as most nursing jobs expect you to be available for shifts 24/7 even if you only work part time.

In this connection: according to the Law Society's Gazette Harriet Harman wants grandparents to have a legal right to time off to look after their grandchildren. Does anyone else think that that is a bridge too far?

if you're using your work from home days to scrimp on childcare, which is what a lot of women think they can do if they get work from home arrangements

I helped review my organisation's Working From Home policy. The first point is:

"Working from home is not a substitute for childcare".

Sorry, not the Gazette - something called Prospect This is what she says:

I’d give grannies (and grandads) a right to time off work to care for their grandchildren. You can get help to pay a childminder, but not your own parents if they give up work to care for your children.