AIBU to think that flexible, family-friendly jobs do not exist.

[MothersRuinart]

A job where you don't get penalised for having to stay home with a sick child, either by having to use annual leave or take unpaid leave. A job where you can leave earlier or start later at a short notice and be able to work up the lost hours another time. A job that would allow you to work from home regularly and/or often and/or at short notice. A company or a work environment that doesn't resent you for having to miss workdays due to childcare issues. Where you're not overlooked for a promotion because you're a parent.

I've never worked for a company like that, neither have any of my friends as far as I know. Tbf, most problems would be solved if more companies allowed their staff to work from home more often or were more flexible with their hours.

I understand that there are jobs where flexibility is not an option but I think most jobs could be much more flexible than they are now.

[FloweringDeranger]

BabyHamster in the comparable countries of northern Europe and the exception of France , there is much lower economic inequality and much much lower levels of casual aggression and crime between citizens, which I believe to be an expression of anger. Civic culture is still much stronger over there. They are freer to protest legally and both they and our media make the most of that, but they don't have as much of Britain's sense of ground-down hopelessness.

[harderandharder2breathe]

I agree with drivingmebonkers do you seriously expect unlimited paid time off not annual leave for not working because of ill children? it should be s limited number of paid days, then unpaid or annual leave

[treaclesoda]

Baby I was thinking of it specifically in terms of mothers rather than parents because mothers are the ones who can't win. Eg if you read the comments on any of the major newspaper websites (and I'm not even just talking about the Daily Mail) you'll see loads of comments about whining women wanting everything their own way, wanting the workplace rearranged to suit them, yet the same people are complaining about evil women expecting hard-working men to support them financially.

If a man is a single parent he is a saint, and his childcare issues are entirely understandable and how wonderful that he is taking responsibility for his children. If a woman is a single parent she is irresponsible and her childcare or money issues are her own problem.

[I8toys]

My job is like that - I'm a PA and work 3 days in the office and 2 at home. Do school drop off. I've worked for the same employer for 17 years though and was childless at the beginning. I also do extra hours - evenings and weekends when necessary. It works from both sides as we are both flexible.

[SukeyTakeItOffAgain]

It can often be extremely difficult for certain sectors or microbusinesses to offer the kind of practices you want in your OP. Unlimited paid absence for child illness in a company which might have three or four employees? It could financially cripple them. I guess people need to look at how they can give back to the company and choose the kind of companies they apply to as to whether it's likely.

[Huldra]

My husband has been in jobs like that for the last couple of decades. He can work from home during the holidays or when the kids are sick, they're not tiny and don't need much attention. He can come and go fairly flexibly, he works with other senior managers and they're all in and out of meetings. No one knows who is meant to be where and when. He regularly works over and outside of his official hours so no one begrudges someone having to leave earlier if the work gets done. He has one if those jobs where he spends his time reporting, planning and getting people to do stuff. Suppliers, team, customers are all around the world so there's lots of conference calls. Being sat at your office desk 100% of the time isn't necessary.

He has that type of job because he didn't take a career break to have kids. He went up the ladder partially enabled by me. He had years of being able to stay late, longer commutes and travel without having to think about childcare.

He never gets asked about childcare at interviews, he asks about flexibility and always gets a positive response. Every single sodding interview I go for I get asked, My stock reply is that it's unfair in my house as my husband gets to do most of it.

[BeyondThePage]

Well, from all these posts I think that the civil service is chronically over-staffed - if they can do without all these people (just on mumsnet alone) for the odd hour/half day/day here or there, then they could do without having that many people full stop.

When you work for a small business - it is very different - if a shop based, then you need people to staff the shop from 9 til 6 (in our case) but you only need ONE person to run the shop at a time - so you divide the job in 3 and there is cover for sickness and holidays built in - but if one takes time off at short notice to care for a child with chicken pox for a week, you can only cover so long as someone else is not away on leave or home sick etc... You keep dropping work for children's illness, then your employability in that role is less than credible.

[BikeRunSki]

Well, from all these posts I think that the civil service is chronically over-staffed - if they can do without all these people (just on mumsnet alone) for the odd hour/half day/day here or there, then they could do without having that many people full stop.

It's Saturday. It's been Saturday since this thread started. The civil service largely work Monday-Friday office hours.

[BeyondThePage]

It's Saturday. It's been Saturday since this thread started. The civil service largely work Monday-Friday office hours

That was not what I meant, sorry,

it is the fact that all these civil service jobs are so family friendly and flexible that people can seemingly take time off at will during working hours.

[EwanWhosearmy]

it is the fact that all these civil service jobs are so family friendly and flexible that people can seemingly take time off at will during working hours.

What is your point Beyond? The OP asked where you could find a flexible family-friendly job. Of course you aren't going to find that in a small business with 6 people in.

Civil servants do get to take time off, but generally they have to make it back some other time. There are 11000 people at my place of work, so plenty to cover for the odd hour/day/week that someone else is off. Our open hours are 7-7, so if I need to take an hour off in the morning for a meeting at school I can work it back later in the day once DH has DD.

It's not all roses. As others have said we get paid much less than others in related jobs in the private sector, but it's a trade-off.

I'm part time because DH's current job means he can't help with the school run, so I'm seen as less committed than a FT person, even though I am expected to complete a FT workload in my reduced hours (and I do).

I've been passed over for temporary promotion because I'm only part time. It isn't supposed to happen but it does. But the conditions suit me at this stage, when I need the flexibility. In return I will stay late when it's required, or go in early, so long as I have enough notice. I'm happy to do that.

[Daisies123]

Mine is nominally family friendly (public sector) but in reality we're so short staffed I'm not sure what will happen if I needed to take time off for sick child. Fingers crossed I haven't needed to yet. If I'm not there we can't run one service, which people travel to use from all over the country. No resilience at all...

[HeadDreamer]

My job is like that. It is results oriented and also computer based. I manage my own diary so I keep one day free of meetings so I can work from home. I can also work from home when children are ill or when they have nativity, sports day etc. But I do put in the hours if needed. It is a privilege to be trusted with flexible hours.

[cushioncovers]

But most of the things you mention come with years of service, building up trust and respect. I've been with my firm for 15 years and I've earned those perks, I didn't start off with them on day one!

I agree.

[TinselTwins]

I actually do not think that working from home is at all family friendly unless you have a home office and childcare. The benefits of working from home are cutting time and expense on commuting, beyond that working from home is shit, and not at all family friendly! I worked from home a lot in my old job, it had an awful impact on family life!

Now I work on a 0.8 contract (not quite full time but more money than part time). NEVER take work home, and can request which days I work. Its very family friendly. Its public sector.

[skerrywind]

I work from home- I work part time hours and get a full time salary. No sick or holiday pay, but I can work more or less hours as I please.

[treaclesoda]

My husband's public sector job has a bit of flexibility but it's not because he can just take an hour off here and there and no one will miss him, it's because the nature of the job is that a huge amount of it can be done remotely as long as he has a phone, his secure computer and a good internet connection. His employer could insist that it is all done during office hours, from a particular desk, but it wouldn't actually benefit the organisation in any way. And they'd probably lose talented staff (mostly his female colleagues) who would decide that they couldn't balance things satisfactorily. On the other hand there are days when there is no flexibility at all; eg no one can work from home if they are holding a meeting with someone who has travelled from 200 miles away to attend. But that's common sense, and everyone understands.

It's obviously very different if you're in a customer facing role, or dealing with patients, or hosting a conference.

[TinselTwins]

A job that would allow you to work from home regularly and/or often and/or at short notice

This is probably why companies don't like offering work from home options: if you are asking for it "at short notice" it's probably because something has come up, like a sick child, and if your child is sick, how much work are you really going to get done at home?

Working from home was never supposed to be a way to skimp on childcare. And unfortunately I think women can be their own worst enemies on this because the men I know who work from home don't do chores and look after their kids while they do, but women I know with this option try to do both, and it doesn't work: it's not nice for the kids (trust me! I've been the half present parent hiden behind my laptop!) and it doesn't produce great work.

[TinselTwins]

Mostly, when I was "working from home" I'ld try to leave DH home with the kids and go and sit with my laptop in the local library or a cafe. I would also use a nursery. Sometimes I had to try to work with the kids home and it was just rubbish!

It was nice to work without a back-drop of office politics or the horrid commute I had at the time, but it cost just as much, actually more! in childcare. And there's always the assumption that you're skiving so you have to do silly things like make sure you fire off emails at regular intervals to the right people otherwise I'ld get an email checking up on me..

[MovingOnUpMovingOnOut]

where you don't get penalised for having to stay home with a sick child, either by having to use annual leave or take unpaid leave.

Erm, why should you not take annual leave? If you're not doing the work then you don't get paid.

I'm self employed, dh is employed. We are both about as flexible as you can get but there are still caveats like turning up to work if we want to be paid. Oh, and being self employed I get fuck all if I don't do the work. No sick pay, no holiday pay and no pension. I do have a great hourly rate so I'm very fortunate and count my blessings.

These jobs do exist but you have to earn then and be lucky. Super lucky in some cases. Dh can be flexible because he is very senior and to some extent because he's a man and is therefore a hero for pulling his weight (which is shit). Recently my dd was ill and we each stayed at home with her two days each. Dh's boss genuinely thought she must be at death's door if he was telling him (NB tell, not ask) he was cancelling meetings/working a half day rather than "just" too poorly for nursery.

[TinselTwins]

If you are being paid to produce end results, and can work your own patterns, you can take a day off but you will then need to play catch up, so in a way you're worse off that you would be in a job where you get annual or unpaid leave & your work is covered while you're away IYKWIM

[AnneElliott]

Another civil servant here and my job is flexible like that. Although I am flexible for work too; I'm on call at weekends, press office ring me at odd times and occasionally I'm in parliament until after 10pm.

But a great employer and I'm grateful for the flexibility.

[allofthestress]

My job's very flexible too - it's home based and I'm technically self-employed although I'm contracted to large company. I work when I want so preschool hours and some evenings - when my son starts school I'll work more in the day and make up time in the evenings if he's sick or I go in for a school event.

I used to work full time and my employer was fairly decent about time off if he was sick but now I'm a single parent with no support nearby (exH lives over an hour away) this works out better for me. It lets me study on the side too so I can move into something better paid when childcare is less of an issue in the future.

[skerrywind]

your work is covered while you're away

Many paid jobs are not like that though, I've had jobs that I have had to work like fury before taking time off to clear the decks and think ahead- colleagues only dealing with urgent or simple stuff when I am away- then coming back after a week to face a huge backlong- often working unpaid overtime thereafter to get back on an even keel.