Transing a 4 year old

[ShadowChancellor]

On Monday, all the children at my kids school were taught about being transgender because the parent of a reception kid have decided that X is actually Y and are now sending their kid in as the opposite sex and have changed their name.

According to my kid they were shown a video that was all about how if you were a boy and liked girl things and girl clothes you were a girl and it was all very positive.

No parents were told before this happened. We only found out when the kids came out of school on Monday and told us.

AIBU to a) think that transing a kid at 4 years old is more to do with the parents not liking the fact that their kid prefers girls toys to boys toys and b) that the other parents should've been told before they showed our kids this film and promoted it all in school.

Its caused a lot of confusion with the younger kids who think you can change whether you are a boy or girl just by wishing it and didn't mention at all all of the problems that it can cause.

Whether that was exactly what the video said I don't know, but that is what the kids have taken from it as 4-7 year olds aren't shit hot at understanding this kind of thing.

When ds1 was 4 he loved playing with his 'baby' and wearing nail varnish. Both 'girly' things (society opinion not mine)
At 6 he asked for money for his birthday as he wanted a toy silver Cross pram as it was the only non pink one we could find and it was above my budget. He's now 12 and loves sewing and has asked me to teach him how to crochet.
Doesn't want to be a girl though.

Ds2 at that age loved pink and would often dress up in one of my tops as it made a dress on him. And like his brother loved having his nails done. He's now 10 and still plays with teddies (makes them have conversions etc). He loves other traditionally girly stuff like baking and still likes to have his nails done. Also doesnt want to be a girl.

If either of them had been shown that video at 4 they would probably have thought they needed to be girls.

YANBU. So frustrated to read this in the New York Times last week:

From the moment she learned how to walk and talk, Jazz Jennings gravitated toward dresses and dolls. They were among the earliest signs that Jazz, born male, identified as female.

WTF is happening? Are people latching onto lazy gender stereotypes as a simple way of explaining the incredibly complicated condition of gender dysphoria?

Or is biological sex now being cast aside as less relevant to your identity than your ability/inclination to perform according to Western gender stereotypes?

So we'll know, if the future, that we are women if we enjoy personal adornment and care-giving roles. If we lean towards physical competition, scientific investigation, mechanical ingenuity and practical clothing, we are men.

Considering that most of the traits considered feminine are less financially renumerative, less likely to aid technological/scientific progression, less academically demanding and more likely to be dismissed as frivolous or superficial, then we're pretty much set up to be the perpetual underclass.

I would be furious to see this mindset, however well-meant, conveyed to young kids. As Freddorika said, we're drifting into a bizarre, self-defeating situation where pushing the boundaries of female stereotypes will just mean you're no longer female.

pombal, I have no expert experience in that field, so don't really know.

There is a Gender Dysphoria clinic in the Big City near where I live, but it's squarely aimed at adults/teens (not sure from what age).

Also, 'cutting off penis' can suggest any number of things - I can see a 4yo pretending to do this (well, any of mine would have suggested such things...) or it could be in the context of being very distressed and actually wanting to do it which IMO is a mental wellbeing issue.

it is worrying to me that it is harder for parents/child to cope with the idea of not liking gender stereotype things than with the idea of being trans. A lot of the trans children you read about are brought up in very stereotypical families and its often cited as proving they are not trying to be politically correct and i think it is the opposite - they are so blinkered as to what being a boy or girl means they can't cope with any variation - they'd rather their child had a labelled medical condition than was just different.
My 6 year old happened to watch the adult news last night when a trans person was talking (i was questioned why the person spoke like a man but looked like a woman) - so we had to discuss what being a boy meant what being a girl meant - and was being a boy something inside and not just having a penis.- we also discussed what it didn't mean - liking pink didn't mean you were a girl, playing football didn't mean you were a boy etc - its very hard to explain and i would like to be involved/aware if anyone else was trying to explain it to my child.
I would also say that the stereotyping started a long time before reception and I can see that a child could easily feel he was the wrong gender by the age of 4 as there are a lot of engrained stereotypes even by then which if you didn't fit in would be very difficult

My DS wanted to be a sausage when he was 4. Strangely enough I didn't feed him through a mincer, cook him and have him for dinner, I just said "yes dear" and carried on. Then he was a dog for a while. I didn't put him on a lead for walks (probably should have done, he was a wanderer!)

I wanted to be a boy from toddler age to teens. If my mum had asked me then if I wanted to change I would definitely have said yes, I didn't want to be a girl at all. My favourite things were lego, making dens, doing stunts on my bmx etc. The only time I wore skirts was for school, I refused at home.

I reached my teens, and I it all changed and I was fine with being female. I just never have liked skirts/dresses much, I still spend most of my time in jeans and t-shirts or hoodies with trainers. I never wear make up. I can't say "I feel female" I just feel like me, this is what I am, these are the things I like, all make me unique as the next person.

Thankfully my parents let me do what I wanted, never any pressure to conform to stereotypes.

Madness. Let them make up their mind when they're old enough to make up their own mind. We don't allow the sick and elderly to voluntarily end their lives in case they're being influenced by the motives of others. This should be similar.

I'm not surprised by this - it's a logical milestone in the Transactivists' playbook

Finding it amusing that the usual pro-trans suspects on here are downplaying it though

Am I missing something? Why does your gender identity have to differ from your sex if it deviates from stereotypical gender interests?

The stereotypes were the faulty premise. Surely that's where we should focus our efforts?

This is disgusting and I'm not sure I believe its for real. Teachers should refuse to teach this misogynistic sexist patriarchal s**t.

Girls who want to fight, get dirty, wear trousers and have short hair are still 100% girls, and boys who want to wear make up, high heels and play with dolls- they are 100% male. we are what our innate biology dictates. Intersex children are just that and should be left intersex until they are old enough to understand where they INNATELY are on the sex spectrum. gender stereotypes are harmful social constructs that keeps us all pinned in our places for the convenience of the patriarchy. Grrrrrrrr!!!!
I was a total tomboy who wanted a penis because I absorbed clear messages that boys grew up to have the power and do all the interesting stuff. BUT- I grew up to be a very happy in my skin woman, and as it happens, a lesbian. Society is what needs to change, not pandering to this transing bullshit. By today's nonsensical attitudes I would probably have ended up sterilised. Why is it more acceptable to some of today's parents to advocate that their children take hormones and have surgery- to literally turn themselves out to become a facsimile of the opposite sex than to accept that they are probably gay?

My pretty four year old started school with long curly blonde hair. They are a gentle person, they liked dressing up, drawing, looking at books quietly not too keen on the rufty tufty stuff. They were friends with both boys and girls.

My four year old was a boy, but on a frequent basis, visitors to the school, locum teachers, students etc, would make the assumption he was a girl. When this happened him and his mates would have a bit of a chuckle, sometimes tell the teacher they were a silly, sometimes play along with it for a laugh.

What I'm trying to say is, kids at that age are pretty gender neutral, in how they look and what they do. There is absolutely no reason for anyone to be screaming trans and shoving them down a specific pathway. Let them just be kids and look and behave however they like without labels.

Why do they have to stick a label on the child? If the child wants to wear a dress and pink stuff and be called a girls name why don't they just let then without sticking a label on them at 4? The other children wouldn't need to be told anything other than this is what they he wants to wear and this is what they want to be called and people can choose to wear and be called what they like regardless of sex. Poor kid. It will be very hard growing up in a box their parents have created for them I wonder if they will be as supportive if they child decides they are a boy?

Can't believe that people are trying to goad the OP into revealing the identity of her child's school, e.g.

" you need have no fear of being identified by the school, so no reason not to reveal which school"

Maybe the OP is not just protecting their own child? Any reporter worth their salt would have little trouble sniffing out which Reception child had recently changed gender with that information.

There are organisations with seemingly unlimited amounts of money involved with putting speakers and material on this subject into schools. It doesn't surprise me at all that a video which led to that interpretation by children was shown, even though it should surprise me, since parents are surely meant to be consulted before sensitive subjects are tackled?

The video was called something like "I am Lily / Lola" - but if you search for it on YouTube there are about a million videos with similar names

It wasn't "I am Leo" was it?

Lots of shit in there about pink brains in blue bodies etc

I've not read the full thread, wanted to comment first.

Totally wrong of the school, and a mis-read situation by the parents.

4 year old. Jesus fucking wept.

Why can't we just be people.

"Am I missing something? Why does your gender identity have to differ from your sex if it deviates from stereotypical gender interests?

The stereotypes were the faulty premise. Surely that's where we should focus our efforts?"

Absolutely. Trans activism reinforces gender stereotypes to the detriment of children's physical and mental health.

Let's see, are there any trans girls wearing trainers, 'boyfriend jean' (problematic term in itself suggesting girls wear skinny jean, boys wear baggy clothes) wide rugby t-shirts and playing football?

My guess is no.

Does this mean girls who like to play football are boys?

WTF! That's totally in breach with gender equality.

Does it mean a boy who plays with dolls, his own or his sister's 'girly' toys is not being "a real boy"?

I though we had got over the boys don't cry, girls play nicely and wear pleated skirts shit??

I wonder what Emeline Pankhurst would think.

First reaction to a child trying to mutilate their genitals should be 'let's investigate to see if there's any sexual abuse taking place' abused children are going to be slipping through the net here because they're using trans as a coping mechanism/avoidance tactic/way of dissociating from something terrible happening to them.

"Can't believe that people are trying to goad the OP into revealing the identity of her child's school"

Yep, classic doxxing attempt

To those of you who are disbelieving that something like this could happen: in the last few years, due to going through the process of becoming adoptive parents, we've seen many child reports. There's a real focus on gender/sexuality amongst social services at the moment. It is the hot topic du jour.

I can't release details for obvious reasons, but one young boy was seeking parents who would be open to helping him transition because he liked to wear dresses during dress up. He'd never had toys before and embraced the toys in his -all female- foster placement with relish.

He was swiftly moved to an all-boy placement where a team of psychologists and social workers vigorously approved when he was seen playing 'boyishly' such as fighting and using guns.

Reams of reports were written but it was concluded that due to his love of musicals and dancing and other 'feminine interests' he should begin treatment at the country's leading child gender clinic with a view to later transition.

The boy was 4. He'd never apparently said he'd wanted to be a girl but psychologists and child experts believed he had gender confusion which needed encouragement for his wellbeing.

I can believe that the school took advice from the local children's services team and were given the video. ...

Madness! they could have said ''play with who you like, play with what you like, wear what you like" and that would have done for a few years.

/sledgehammer to crack a nut. Agree with a PP who said that it's like some form of munchausen's by proxy. parents need to de-escalate

BillSykesDog It isn't 'sticking a label' on a child to reaffirm that the child is in reality either a boy a girl or intersex. This is the whole problem- 'identity' is being treated as something sacred when it isn't. Reality is that I was a girl growing up in a patriarchal society. It would not have been helpful then and isn't helpful now to encourage a child to 'identify' as something they are not and never will be. All that does it skirt around the problems presented by patriarchal norms and values. What is empowering is to say to our children- you are a girl, not a boy, but as a girl you can do anything you want and wear whatever you like.

I can believe it pootle. Someone at some point has to say enough is enough when it comes to kids. No one is denying the rights of people to be who they want to be, but it's starting to feel dangerous.

Gender dysphoria is a natural reaction to the binary gender roles imposed on us by a patriarchal society. I experienced it.

This has to be a wind-up.