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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Transing a 4 year old

818 replies

ShadowChancellor · 24/02/2017 09:10

On Monday, all the children at my kids school were taught about being transgender because the parent of a reception kid have decided that X is actually Y and are now sending their kid in as the opposite sex and have changed their name.

According to my kid they were shown a video that was all about how if you were a boy and liked girl things and girl clothes you were a girl and it was all very positive.

No parents were told before this happened. We only found out when the kids came out of school on Monday and told us.

AIBU to a) think that transing a kid at 4 years old is more to do with the parents not liking the fact that their kid prefers girls toys to boys toys and b) that the other parents should've been told before they showed our kids this film and promoted it all in school.

Its caused a lot of confusion with the younger kids who think you can change whether you are a boy or girl just by wishing it and didn't mention at all all of the problems that it can cause.

OP posts:
Floggingmolly · 24/02/2017 14:54

I'd be incandescent if that had been shown to my four year old, just to indulge the crackpot parents of that poor little sod.

OfftheCuff · 24/02/2017 14:56

it's likely he was an autistic woman

I remember reading somewhere that there is a connection between autism and gender dysphoria and/or transgender. That the 2 often go together - is this so, or am I imagining it?

To be clear: not that neuro-atypical people are often also transgender, but that many transgender people are also neuro-atypical.

LittleGwyneth · 24/02/2017 14:58

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QueenLaBeefah · 24/02/2017 14:59

So tired of this gender stereotyping regarding children. It's just total crap.

joystir59 · 24/02/2017 14:59

This issue just goes to show how deeply embedded our values, prejudices even, are about what it means to be female/male.

BeyondUnderthinking · 24/02/2017 15:01

There is a correlation, offthecuff

Having done tests for both (official for asd, unofficial for gid) I can certainly see why. Some of the questions are literally identical

atheistmantis · 24/02/2017 15:03

I think I found the same video on YouTube, is it the one with the a level student? If so it's totally inappropriate for reception age children just in terms if comprehension.

OfftheCuff · 24/02/2017 15:04

But why might the questions for both be identical? I'm interested in why these two conditions might have some correlation. Some sort of dysphoria in common?

LittleGwyneth · 24/02/2017 15:06

@Crumbs1 you did not just post a Breitbart link here. Do you have any idea the kind of stuff that publication runs? The article that said that women shouldn't be doing STEM subjects because they're stupider than men? That rape accusation are made by remorseful sluts? The cure to online harassment is women logging off?

BarrackerBarma · 24/02/2017 15:06

FFS.

The child in that video could have had everything he wanted, dressed how he wanted, changed his name AND been encouraged to see all that frippery as completely compatible with his sex and his body.
He could have been told, course it's not a phase son. You can do this your whole life.
He could have been told liking princesses and leotards is something boys do.

If he'd been born in Malawi or Pakistan or other countries where being a girl gets you an entirely different existence from the one in that video,, would he have been begging his parents to let him be the one to forgo an education, have an early marriage, serve his brother food that he had been taught was it was his duty to prepare?
No, because those are not fun stereotypes associated with girls.

A child wanting the 'girl's life package' is just choosing stuff. Let them have the stuff, and let girls reject the stuff, and unchain the whole superficial nonsense from sex entirely.

venusinscorpio · 24/02/2017 15:08

It's you who looks rather stupid Gwyneth. RTFT. The OP is not a troll and has linked to the video. Transitioning is an active verb and something people make a choice to do, this is something that a child that young would have no knowledge of. So DFOD. You are wrong.

LittleGwyneth · 24/02/2017 15:08

Also you guys have no idea whether or not the child in question might have been born intersex. If so, it's perfectly normal to wait and see what gender the child feels they are and respond to that.

wigglybeezer · 24/02/2017 15:09

Something that bothers me is the prevailing assumption that because social transition does not involve changes to the body that it is easy to reverse, according to studies I have read it is not. The potential confusion, embarrassment, shame involved in changing back and the investment of many adults in the child's life make it difficult for them to change back. Also, nobody has ever gone back after puberty blockers from what I have read.

LittleGwyneth · 24/02/2017 15:09

@venusinscorpio 'transing' is being used in a deliberately pejorative way.

I knew that MN was transphobic, but I had no idea it was this bad.

venusinscorpio · 24/02/2017 15:10

There was a really interesting (and concerning) very long link someone posted a while back about comorbidities. I'll see if I can find it.

venusinscorpio · 24/02/2017 15:11

You are reality-phobic.

BarrackerBarma · 24/02/2017 15:11

Which intersex condition in particular do you have in mind there Gwyneth?
And why would a medically intersex condition cause a school to educate the children on transitioning from one unambigous sex to another?

You do know trans and intersex are not the same?

venusinscorpio · 24/02/2017 15:12

Something that bothers me is the prevailing assumption that because social transition does not involve changes to the body that it is easy to reverse, according to studies I have read it is not. The potential confusion, embarrassment, shame involved in changing back and the investment of many adults in the child's life make it difficult for them to change back. Also, nobody has ever gone back after puberty blockers from what I have read.

This has always really bothered me too.

LittleGwyneth · 24/02/2017 15:14

@BarrackerBarma I have a biology degree so yeah, I'm up on that. My point is, the parents choice to raise their child as one gender might not have been as clear-cut as it typically is.

No, there is no excuse for saying that boys are into one thing and girls are into another, but there's also no excuse for blindly judging a very complicated situation without much information.

venusinscorpio · 24/02/2017 15:17

And puberty blockers are not harmless and risk free. Lupron is a drug used for this purpose which is associated with major side effects for adults prescribed with it in the US. Apparently warning people of any risks with these treatments is being counted as "conversion therapy" by medical bodies.

ageingrunner · 24/02/2017 15:20

I think there's a big court case in USA at the moment with people who were given lupron as children to treat precocious puberty who are suffering terribly because of it. It's not a drug that should be taken for no good reason imo.

RhodaBorrocks · 24/02/2017 15:21

My ASD DS went through a phase of saying he wanted to be a girl. He has dolls, a kitchen and loves to cook. He hates football. But he was also obsessed with cars, lego and computer games.

He kept saying he felt like a girl, thought he should be a girl etc. But I saw no evidence of him disliking his male body, he didn't want to wear girls clothes or grow out his hair.

I scoured the Internet for info. I found the criteria any NHS Gender Identity Clinic would use for him. Top of the list was that they weren't wanting to transition for a 'perceived benefit'.

I went back to DS and asked him why he wanted to be a girl. He started the usual "I don't like football". I told him it was irrelevant - neither his Dad or Granddad like football and they are men. Eventually after asking open questions in different ways we got to it:

"Girls are good and boys are naughty. The girls at school never get told off."

Like I said, DS has ASD. At the time his behaviour in school wasn't great - he struggled with noise, lights, demands etc. School kept punishing him and telling new that ASD was irrelevant - he was naughty and needed to 'learn to behave'. He thought being a girl would fix that - perceived benefit.

Add to that his love of more feminine activities, his black and white thinking meant he thought being a girl was the most logical solution.

We had a long talk about gender stereotypes and gender equality. He now has no doubt that he is a boy. A boy who likes what he likes and that's cool. Just like there's girls in his class who love football. He wants to be a chef and now knows that manly men are chefs even when cooking is supposedly girly.

He needed to understand all this before being transitioned. The look of relief on his face when he realised he wasn't weird and that I had his back was incredible.

I sincerely hope the parents, indeed any parents, look at these things objectively before jumping to help their kids transition. I wore my hair cropped and lived in jeans and blue tops from the age of 6. Today I'm in a pink dress. Kids need to know that it's OK to like whatever the hell they want.

If DS saw this video today he'd be the first to talk about gender equality. If he'd seen it 5 years ago at your DS' age I would have had even more to contend with in helping him realise he was fine the way he was.

Sorry for length!

EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans · 24/02/2017 15:21

Puberty blockers are bloody dangerous.

Would you want to give your physically healthy child a drug that's used to chemically castrate men with prostate cancer, and that has side effects including "hot flashes, memory loss, tachycardia, hematura, hypotension, dizziness, insomnia, anxiety, depression, Vitamin D deficiency, constant gnawing bone/joint pain, osteoarthritis, osteopenia, osteoporosis, fibromyalgia, degenerative disc disease, autoimmune diseases, blood disorders, cancer and many others including death"? Because that's what puberty blocker Lupron does.

TinklyLittleLaugh · 24/02/2017 15:22

If the kid in that video is an identical twin it totally knocks the male/female brain idea on the head. Because they would have identical brains.