Transing a 4 year old

[ShadowChancellor]

On Monday, all the children at my kids school were taught about being transgender because the parent of a reception kid have decided that X is actually Y and are now sending their kid in as the opposite sex and have changed their name.

According to my kid they were shown a video that was all about how if you were a boy and liked girl things and girl clothes you were a girl and it was all very positive.

No parents were told before this happened. We only found out when the kids came out of school on Monday and told us.

AIBU to a) think that transing a kid at 4 years old is more to do with the parents not liking the fact that their kid prefers girls toys to boys toys and b) that the other parents should've been told before they showed our kids this film and promoted it all in school.

Its caused a lot of confusion with the younger kids who think you can change whether you are a boy or girl just by wishing it and didn't mention at all all of the problems that it can cause.

Dont doubt the OP at all

A video that talked about gender dysmorphia even in basic terms would be fine but one stating that if a boy likes dolls then he is a girl is obviously dreadful

Ds1 said that he was pleased this wasnt a big deal when he was younger, i have lost count of the amount of times he came home upset that other children were calling him a girl

I liked the post above talking about women pushing the boundries is great

The point is that the school is not just teaching the children to be kind and understanding. They are teaching them that boys must enjoy cars, fighting, mud and all the other stereotypes society forces on small children, or they're a girl.

The only difference between this tripe and a bunch of kids battering me because they decided I must be a lesbian because I didn't fit into externally applied gender norms is that in my case, the school tried to put a stop to it. In this one, it is the school that are actively endorsing those rigid gender roles.

I've never come across a single person who doesn't think that being kind and supportive to people having difficult lives is a bad thing. This isn't about that.

I agree it's child abuse. And the way 'transing' is being embraced seems hysterical to me reflecting a lack of critical thinking and even intelligence.

I have never identified with the 'porn' look, e.g. killer heels, tight clothing, long straightened hair hair extensions, big time nail varnish, self tan and what not. To me it's a horrible and demeaning look because it totally buys into and reinforces the idea of women as sex objects, catering to the male gaze and so on. I like to be my own woman, physically fit & strong through exercise, wearing nice and comfortable clothes in which I am able to move freely and definitely not into extreme grooming which costs a lot of money, I rather save money, or spend it on nice experiences and invest my money. I am as straight as they come and feel like a woman because I have a vagina and boobs, not cos I wear naice make up, pretty frilly things and am a damsel in distress. I raise my dc to explore their own interests and build up their own strengths regardless of what is considered typical male of female. I'd be more than accepting if either of them turned out to be gay.

What's going on here is a dangerous trend.

*Disclaimer I am neither religious (agnostic actually) nor a TERF. I am a thinking individual who accepts that women have been disadvantaged for millennia and that the precious freedoms we have won for ourselves in the last 100 years are currently being threatened.

I have to agree with the pov that "Trans activism reinforces gender stereotypes to the detriment of children's physical and mental health. "

It's not about putting children first, it's a narrow political lobbying campaign by a small number of transactivists who (I'm told) don't represent the majority.

I'm appalled that a primary school could be so swayed by this current trend as to talk about gender in terms of pink and blue, dolls and rough play. It's so sexist it's not true.

I'm horrified that the school showed such young children the video without getting permission from their parents. Surely that's in breach of the rules about sex ed?

It might be quite difficult for the child to express their change of mind if the parents are keen on transing them. Also children trust their parents so if those parents are telling the child they're in the wrong body, the child will believe them, sadly

Absolutely, ageingrunner. This child is FOUR and obviously trusts its parents implicitly.

Considering how ubiquitous this trans/non-binary thing seems to be amongst teens and young adults right now, I'm really dreading my own children being teens. Which way is the tide going to turn in ten years? Will trans no longer be the new gay (I'm old enough to remember when teen navel gazing centred around sexuality instead of gender. At least coming out as gay or bi doesn't put you on a path of surgery and artificial hormones) or will it be something else?

Actually, I'm not saying the trans thing is sensible, Mercy. Not knowing the child involved or the situation I haven't a clue if it is or isn't. I'd bet we'd all agree that a school's job is to create a nurturing environment for all children? So that includes the one who's currently identifying as different gender. It sounds as though that's what the school were trying to do, which to me is a good intention.

Lweji, yes I agree the views the kids were coming home with about gender stereotypes sound alarming and clearly it needs to be sorted/ that film seen by parents so they can sort out what exactly the kids were told. Really though, haven't we all been outraged by things our kids tell us, then find out they've got the wrong end of the stick completely? That could be the case here too.

definitely child abuse, would make me uncomfortable if my child became friends with the other kid, not because of the poor, poor child but id be wary of the parents and would do my best to discourage the friendship outside of school

agree the views the kids were coming home with about gender stereotypes sound alarming and clearly it needs to be sorted/ that film seen by parents so they can sort out what exactly the kids were told. Really though, haven't we all been outraged by things our kids tell us, then find out they've got the wrong end of the stick completely?

The point here is that if that was not the message they were trying to give the children, then they failed miserably, and they need to find a better way.

It doesn't really matter what they said. It matters what the children learned from it.

I don't doubt the OP. There's been a deluge of programmes, particularly on the BBC, uncritically propagating the idea that small children can be trans, and there is at least one organisation, Mermaids, whose whole purpose is to support and encourage parents of children who display the characteristics listed in the list posted above in enabling them to transition. The BBC showed one programme that was more critical in its approach, and was hit with a storm of criticism, and demands for the 'right of reply' from Mermaids and other trans-supporting organisations.
I know people who are concerned to express a sceptical or critical view about transitioning children, because they would be labelled transphobic and their jobs might be at risk.

This is a huge, huge mess. The pro-trans organisations are now talking about NOT transitioning children (e.g. allowing them to play with non-traditional toys/dress up in atypical clothes for their gender) as being 'conversion therapy'., i.e. converting them forcibly away from being trans. Yet the real 'conversion therapy' is surely to say a child who doesn't conform to rigid stereotypes must be socially and, eventually, physically transitioned rather than to allow them to grow up as possibly gender non-conforming?

Oh every teen is gay, or bi these days. I do think that for some teens there is a bit of a rebellion, shock the parents element to trans.

That's awful...4 year olds don't know what pyjamas they want to wear from one day to the next let own something like this, it's insane, and I would be letting the school know how I feel.

At least coming out as gay or bi doesn't put you on a path of surgery and artificial hormones) or will it be something else?

At least coming out as gay is an expression of sexual orientation- it is part of being who you are. It has nothing to do with' identifying' as something you are not.

I am not alone in deeply resenting including the T in LGBT.

Up until 2015 Stonewall was LGB- it was all about sexuality which has nothing to do with gender identity.

You do know that 'TERF' is an abusive term Leather?

This doesn't surprise me in the current climate. One of mine too came home from primary school telling me all about a trans situation they were "teaching" about, although I think it was under the guise of something else. It was a trans topic though and the parents knew nothing about it until afterwards when the kids came home from school.

Sorry only read first post thus far.

My parents decided that I should have been a girl, from the moment I was born. I have gone through life, late 30s now, with them STILL deciding I should be female.

I agree this is the parents choice and not the child's, and your post brought back the emotional pain I felt as a child that has persisted to this day.

That poor, poor child.

Oh every teen is gay, or bi these days.

This sounds (hopefully its not) very homophobic at worst Tinkly, and very ill informed at best. I am a lesbian and work with young people and can confirm that coming out as gay or bi is still difficult and fearful for many young people- don't be so glib about this please. At there is a strong bein of homophobia in the mix of reasons underpinning the mainstreaming of 'trans' as a thing

I'm quite resentful of being lectured by my teen about my transphobia too.

I lived through the eighties for goodness sake; I've shagged plenty of blokes in makeup and dresses. It didn't make them women.

Trala

I believe that most 'pro-trans' people are well intentioned and kind. But that does not mean that they are not seriously and dangerously misguided and misinformed

I don't understand why the tragic example of a little boy wanting to cut off his penis is seen as proof of anything trans. It does suggest sexual abuse, and aside from that, a woman isn't 'a man without a penis.'

It's a mental health issue. Similarly to if a young child wanted to cut off one of their arms, because they didn't like it or felt it didn't belong to them. A very difficult, challenging circumstance for the child and their family, but not proof that the child was mistakenly born with an arm they shouldn't have.

When I was 3/4, I consistently said that I wasn't a girl, I was a mouse. I used to play at walking on all fours and squeaking. Lots of children at that age enjoy role play and exploring the notion of identity. Transing a 4 year old seems not only absurd, but actively harmful.

Jesus. My 4 year old son insists he's a girl at times and his favourite colour is pink.

I'd better change his name to Doris.

This is horrific!

Lweji, yes I agree. It needs to be sorted as clearly something went wrong and that's really not good. The thing that I'm trying to say (badly!) is that none of us have seen the film/ know what the children were told. Until the OP knows that, there's an awful lot of presumption.

The video, as described, sounds ludicrous, gender essentialist and straight up wrong as regards what makes a person transgender.

However the judgement regarding the age of the child in question is misplaced. This will not be happening without input from multiple professionals, and while rare, some children do express strong gender identities from an early age . Considering the astronomical rates of suicide and self-harm among unsupported transgender children, if this child is genuine, early acceptance and support is crucial. If not, nothing irreversible is happening now. Medical options won't be on the table for close to a decade and won't happen without further input from mental health professionals.

The parents of the child in question may be doing what's best for their kid or they could be delusional and abusive, but the school don't appear to have concerns, and they will be in a better position to assess the process by which this decision was reached than the OP.

The reasonable concern from a parental perspective is that the video shown conflated interests and behaviour with gender identity (or was understood to do so by the OP's daughter at least).

I lived through the eighties for goodness sake; I've shagged plenty of blokes in makeup and dresses. It didn't make them women.

Thank you Tinkly, this made me roar and then think nostalgically about having done the same thing

Steve so sorry you have experienced that. Sadly this ridiculous trend will mean more young people growing up with emotional and MH issues.

I cant believe the parents are allowed to carry on tbh. its child abuse. pure and simple

Xen and Tinkly

Posted this on the other thread but since you are all nostalgic: For you
www.feministcurrent.com/2016/04/23/prince-was-not-trans-he-is-proof-that-men-need-not-be-masculine/