To think the abortion rate will increase after April this year?

[RocketQueenP]

When the new rules on tax credits / universal credit come in ie when no one can claim benefit be it top up or otherwise for any more than 2 children

Sadly I am helping a good friend cope who has just had an early abortion, she did not plan the pregnancy and one of the main reasons is she and her DH are low earners/ They already have 2 at school, and won't be able to afford to have this baby. She is devastated and has admitted they could have squeezed another DC in if it wasn't for the new rules. I think this will happen a lot. :(

In times gone by people would adopt out children that were unplanned that they couldn't afford and I really feel that this is what we are headed back to. Not adoption but, you get my drift

I also think the government fully know this and its one of the reasons they have brought it in. Simple population control

What FloatyFlo said.

space how do you explain the inequality of working parent households restricting their family size because they can't afford more than 1 or 2 DC while those who are in receipt of benefits to cover the cost of their children are able to have whatever size family they want because the government (ie society) will pay them so their child doesn't grow up in extreme poverty?

I will say this. The easiest way to reduce the amount paid is the reduce the amount it costs. We must deflate our housing. Yes some people, myself included would lose out, but long term I think it is well worth it IF they also bring in rules that prevent foreigners and companies, with no links to the UK, buying up homes. I know in the NW, where I grew up, most people are doing well to make GBP50k a year and a household income of more than GBP80k a year is upper income for sure. It makes no sense that an average 3 bed family home in an ok part of town costs about GBP300k. It would be the best way to increase mobility and long term, higher disposable income.

I would also do away with state pensions as they are now and give pensioners income support therefore only those on low income would get help. If you have a final salary package of GBP40k a year you really don't need your weekly pension, bus pass or fuel allowance.

whippin yes there are people who abuse the system, but there are people out there for who the system works phenomenally. I'd hazard a guess there are more working like you that there are taking the piss any day

In terms of loss, I'm no expert but I do receive the maximum amount for each of my children, which I believe is £60 a week. I'm not sure on other losses on top of that. But for someone receiving the full amount it would be £240 loss every 4 weeks.

Hashi I work with the vast majority being women, and off the top of my head, I think around 15 out of 80 or so are in this position (and out of the 80 there are quite a few of non childbearing age).

I'm absolutely astounded that a couple on over 50k would get 13k a year in tax credits when both are only working part time.
Have I understood that correctly?

How much money people will miss out on completely depends on household income. So the current threshold for 3 kids and no childcare costs is round £38k. If your household income is £36k then you would just get a very small amount of tax credits. If however it is £20k you would get a lot more. People who have no household income and live solely off benefits get around £60 pounds per week for each child. So a lone parent on income support who had a third child would currently get around £180 child tax credits per week for 3 kids, so would lose around £60 a week of that if they don't get them for the third child. a A lone parent on income support would be the biggest loser I believe.

Bake off - there is no way a couple earning £50k would get that unless they had loads of kids or very high childcare costs.

No, one working FT (45 hours), one working PT (24 hours).

Without childcare costs it would be nil. But with childcare costs it would be the figures I gave.

Do away with the state pension? I'm sure my mum n dad who worked over 40years would love that! They paid for us and my dad worked 7 days a week!

That also includes the fact I have a disabled child, so will receive extra allowances in that sense.

If you want to put the figures in and have a look what different scenarios give, try entitledto.co.uk

Ok Whippin thanks for clarifying, that makes more sense.

whippin that should have been more people are working like you than are taking the piss. Hope you realised .

If a child has a disability and the parents are able to claim tax credits, the tax credits are boosted a lot.

Does anyone know whether when the new rules come in in April, you will be able to claim the childcare element of tax credits for a third child or will that disappear too?

Whippin This is why in Denmark they subsidize childcare. For three kids we would be paying about GBP500 a month which is very affordable and negates the need for tax credits to help cover the costs. On your income, as a single parent with 3DC you would pay zero.

I would much prefer they put a system like that in place to help parents afford working. Also, in Denmark everyone puts their kids in the government program. Vast majority of women work, albeit in lower ranking/paid jobs than men, with preschool age children. It is a much better system than this tax credit program.

Also, in Denmark if you don't have a job you don't qualify for a bunch of benefits. You have to work to qualify, even single mothers. As a single parent your child would be put in childcare and you sent out for work placements during the hours of childcare. If you don't go to your placement they dock your benefits.

It isn't a perfect system but I think it makes a heck of alot more sense than the confusing and convoluted system they have in the UK. Very few dual working households, have more than 2 DC.

Baby you can only claim for 2 children anyway for childcare. They say 2+, but basically it's £175 maximum per week claim amount for one child (of which they pay a maximum of 70%). And £300 per week for 2 or more.

Thanks Whippin I didn't realise that.

The idea of people 'paying their way' and 'subsidising other people's lifestyles' is only true for a very small number of people, really.

A woman retiring a few years ago at 60, living to the age of 90, would have had to earn around 30k for 40 years to provide enough tax and NI to cover what she will receive back as new State pension until her death. Her payments into the system would not have covered health, education, social care, law and order etc etc.

No-one would have objected to her having three children; no-one would have said, "hold on, your income tax won't cover the cost of their school places. It won't cover their use of the NHS". Most of us don't support ourselves, in reality, but only certain people are judged and criticised for it.

Geez, Wanttobe I hope the standard of childcare in Denmark is phenomenal then, since most of your children are raised in it?

Sorry, Want2b, didn't intentionally misspell that.
It was just the phrase 'everyone puts their kids in the government program' that made me shudder.

Want2b What do they do with people who have to work unsocial hours (like me?).

I am extremely lucky in that I have had set days agreed (reviewed yearly). This really doesn't happen for front line NHS workers. However I still have to be in work for 7.30am, childcare here starts at the time I have to be in work. I work til 8pm, so long after childcare finishes. One of my children is older, the others preschool. So honestly, a Nanny is my only option.

AbernathysFringe It is subsidized child care which means the government pays a large chunk of the cost and the remainder is paid for by the family based on their income. Under 1's have a ratio of 4:1 I think which is perfectly fine IME and IMO.

Whippin As a single parent you would only be required to work during the hours of childcare being available. The employer is responsible for making sure you can leave on time to pick up your children. I know from visits to the hospital when SIL was admitted this accommodation is taken very seriously.

AbernathysFringe Remember 93% of the kids in the UK are educated by the government.... Does that mean standards are low?