To think friends are being over-senstive?

[pomadas87]

A friend (who lives abroad) messaged me and a couple of our good mutual friends - he shared happy news of his new baby and some pics. Everyone v excited and wished him congratulations!

He then said "so who's next to have a baby - she needs a playmate!" ... me and DH are newly married and are getting the question quite a lot...! Other friend said "I'm looking at you guys" (meaning me and DH)...

I then said "not for a while I'm afraid why don't you have another one straightaway and you'll have Irish Twins - instant playmate!"

Meant it in a joking way and then they all called me a racist, xenophobe etc.... I didn't realise it was offensive and now I'm feeling shitty! Did they overreact to my (stupid) joke or am I just an idiot?!

No but the phrase has been attributed to "the english" when we don't know who invented it and I had never heard of it despite spending my childhood in england.

People have also expressed their views that "english people" do this, and think that and their intentions are this.

People have labelled "the english" as a whole.

There has been the deliberate painting of a picture where english means bully and xenophobe and a complete inability ( only from a few-mainly second generation irish people living outside of ireland) to see that this is a form of xenophobia in itself. Probably formed through a desire to feel closer to their roots.

It is probably easier to express it anonymously over the Internet than down their local pub, where it will probably go down like a lead baloon.

Actually I doubt anyone would say much if they did. Probably joining in in all feeling sorry for irish peoples history and defending the irish people against things that don't even bother most irish people.
That is a behaviour that is developed through historical guilt.

OMG your last post sounds slightly ridiculous. No one feels sorry for anybody. However, history is a good lesson to us all as far as intolerance and ignorance is concerned.

OK Diana. I think they do. That is my opinion.

Hang on, so Irish people living in Ireland are allowed to object to the phrase, but Irish people living in England aren't? And if these Irish in England experience anti-Irish prejudices or stereotypes, this is because the Irish people are xenophobic and want to take part in some sort of folk-memory angst?

I'm not going to engage any further as this thread is going in circles and people very clearly don't want to be challenged on their treatment of others. Whether or not people who find this offensive are being shut down is clear for all to see on this thread. This has really upset me. Far more than the innocent, accidental use of the phrase that the thread was about. I genuinely thought I was accepted here on MN as the same as everyone else, it's not the case. There are people here who wish me not to speak because it makes them uncomfortable. I truly am quite disgusted that people think what they have said here is perfectly fine. This is 2017. Im finding it really hard to articulate just how upset I am by this but it has really changed my feelings about posting here. Not all are welcome.

Just to add I have been a MNer for 8 years and I have never ever felt as hurt as I have by posts on this thread.

I'm really sorry you've been made to feel that way, One

I have engaged with you on other threads and have enjoyed talking to you in the past very much. How is your neighbour by the way? Still coming in your garden?!

I have enjoyed hearing everyone's opinions. I understand that it is not easy to hear opinions which are not often expressed. Particularly if you do not agree. I will leave this debate too. I hope the opinions which have upset you are not my own. I hope you continue to post all of your opinions on mumsnet.

I really appreciate that diana. Yes he is still throwing his weight around. Hasn't come into the garden but is playing silly beggars with parking. I'm mostly ignoring. I'm going to hide this thread now as I really don't need to see the inevitable posts telling me how my feelings are wrong and I need to stop saying them.

Probably joining in in all feeling sorry for irish peoples history and defending the irish people against things that don't even bother most irish people

And that would somehow be BAD, would it, feeling sorry for the terrible history of the Irish?

I'm sorry if it upsets you to hear that the English as a people were responsible for a huge amount of suffering of many people around the world, but that is the fact. Complaining that pointing out facts about your history is xenophobic is whiney, ridiculous, deeply offensive to the people on the other side of the equation and frankly laughable.

It is probably easier to express it anonymously over the Internet than down their local pub, where it will probably go down like a lead baloon

I can see that it is easier for you to say such ridiculous things on the internet, because in your local pub you'd hopefully be thrown out for being so bloody offensive.

Well since you asked OMG yes your posts have really upset me and I'm not going to get back into a cycle of explaining why to you. And no I don't feel comfortable posting here anymore. Maybe after some time that will change.

One yes ignore, glad he's not hanging around in your garden at least

Hope to see you about soon, this thread has turned very ugly.

Go Winter! 🙌🏻

Indeed, Diana. And for One.

I agree with comments by Infinity and Bill

Certain posters certainly do not speak for all Irish people as this thread has nicely demonstrated.

I'm also very uncomfortable with the notion that English people aren't allowed to say the phrase but its ok for the Irish. That smacks of more racism to me than the term itself.

to all the irish people who are sick of this thread

Will I haven't seen anyone try to speak for Irish people. But the people using terms like 'professionally offended' are oozing ignorance when clearly there is something to be offended by for certain Irish people.

I'm also very uncomfortable with the notion that English people aren't allowed to say the phrase but its ok for the Irish. That smacks of more racism to me than the term itself.

Does it really? "Here's a phrase that we invented that ridicules you, we're allowed to use it and you're not allowed to being fucked off" sounds worse than "we've reclaimed a term that you invented to ridicule us, one of many, and we'd rather you didn't use it even if we do about ourselves" to you?

Well, I guess you are allowed that opinion. Even if it is inane.

Winter

"I'm sorry if it upsets you to hear that the English as a people were responsible"

There's quite a few of them they are not "a people" they are a collection of lots of iduviduals

Individuals

May I ask you to consider using the phrase "some english people" as an alternative. I find it less offensive

I said "as a people". Do you not understand the different definitions of "as a people" and "as people"?

The English, as a people, were responsible for a lot of colonialism, death, destruction...ramifications of which are currently ongoing. The English, as a people, voted for Brexit, which will have huge implications for Ireland that most people as individuals, as well as as a people, neither understand nor care about.
So, as a people, the English have been pissing off and affecting badly the Irish, and continue to do so.

If you don't understand the definitions get a dictionary. And possibly a history book, a map, and a decent newspaper?

Singular-an english person
Plural- some english people

A people?