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Original poster

To think friends are being over-senstive?

999 replies

pomadas87 · 20/02/2017 18:51

A friend (who lives abroad) messaged me and a couple of our good mutual friends - he shared happy news of his new baby and some pics. Everyone v excited and wished him congratulations!

He then said "so who's next to have a baby - she needs a playmate!" ... me and DH are newly married and are getting the question quite a lot...! Other friend said "I'm looking at you guys" (meaning me and DH)...

I then said "not for a while I'm afraid Grin why don't you have another one straightaway and you'll have Irish Twins - instant playmate!"

Meant it in a joking way and then they all called me a racist, xenophobe etc.... I didn't realise it was offensive and now I'm feeling shitty! Did they overreact to my (stupid) joke or am I just an idiot?! Confused

OP posts:
OMGyoumustbekidding · 22/02/2017 19:20

I am scottish , I spent some of childhood in england. In scotland I am a second class citizen. It happens and it is shite when it does.

StumblyMonkey · 22/02/2017 19:21

...and yes. I had no part in any oppression. Wasn't even born so I find it really odd that anyone would hold it against me because I happen to be English. It's not like I can choose where I'm born?

TinselTwins · 22/02/2017 19:21

A history of being oppressed is not an excuse to behave like a twat to individuals who played no part in that oppession.

making jokes based on themes that have been used to hurt a group of people, is not "playing no part in that oppression"

Peeople are not "behaving like twats" if they don't laugh when the jokes on them!

TinselTwins · 22/02/2017 19:23

..and yes. I had no part in any oppression. Wasn't even born so I find it really odd that anyone would hold it against me because I happen to be English. It's not like I can choose where I'm born?

You CAN chose whether or not you take a stance of "well it hasn't affected me, so I'll chose to believe it's no big deal and people who have experience it should just get over it".

StumblyMonkey · 22/02/2017 19:23

Tinsel...I think you're massively over simplifying. Of course I'm aware of other types of discrimination that don't apply to me. I don't go around willingly ignoring discrimination.

I would consider myself massively against discrimination so would normally notice whether aimed at me or not.

Do you have an example?

StumblyMonkey · 22/02/2017 19:28

And I'm not choosing to believe it's no big deal, I've asked for examples because I'm genuinely surprised that it happens.

I've never heard of any studies about it, TV programmes, radio programmes, newspaper or magazine articles....I guess that is why I'm surprised it's 'a thing'?

TinselTwins · 22/02/2017 19:29

You're against discrimination, but only if people prove to you that they've experienced it Hmm ???

If you haven't noticed it, your threashold to it is pretty high - which is understandable if it hasn't been directed at you personally. But it's a position of privilidge and ignorance.

LucklessMonster · 22/02/2017 19:31

What's all this "My friend/husband/cousin/grandad's friend's postman's cat is Irish and s/he doesn't find it offensive" shit??? Is it the new "I have a friend who's black"?

TinselTwins · 22/02/2017 19:35

What's all this "My friend/husband/cousin/grandad's friend's postman's cat is Irish and s/he doesn't find it offensive" shit??? Is it the new "I have a friend who's black"?

sigh, yes, as this thread proves it is still expected that Irish people "humour" English people who use them as the butt of the joke. Just because your coworker doesn't express upset every time someone said "it looks like a paddy shop in here!" doesn't mean it isn't affecting them, it just means that they sadly still live in a society where it's more socially acceptable to make jokes at the expense of the Irish than it is to be Irish and upset by hurtful generalisations.

A lot of Irish people are "cool" with it, because they have to be, in order to fit in and get on. That doesn't make it fine.

StumblyMonkey · 22/02/2017 19:36

No Tinsel.

You keep making assumptions.

I'm actually very, very proactively supportive of all kinds of groups that experience discrimination. As in I actually go out of my way to support them.

I'm just not really willing to believe in something because one person on MN said so. I like facts. So if I haven't got any experience I look for facts. I have no facts right now, just your say so.

I'm totally open to facts - experiences, studies, anything. Wouldn't it be easier to throw something like that out there on to the thread instead of just ranting?

OneWithTheForce · 22/02/2017 19:37

Fucking hell, now we have to prove we have been discriminated against otherwise it didn't happen?

Not sure what exactly is "behaving like a twat" or "being shit to someone" about not finding a joke at your expense funny. Where is the shit/testy behaviour there?

really odd that anyone would hold it against me because I happen to be English.

Nope. No-one is holding your Englishness against you. They would be holding against you the offensive words you chose to use if you were to use them. If you don't choose to use them then no-one has anything against you.

OneWithTheForce · 22/02/2017 19:39

Oh we're just ranting now! Angry

TinselTwins · 22/02/2017 19:39

So if I haven't got any experience I look for facts. I have no facts right now, just your say so

If you were really as right-on as you think you are, you would recognise the fundamental problem with that sentence.

StumblyMonkey · 22/02/2017 19:41

No Tinsel is just ranting. And now you're being offended by something not said to you?

I haven't asked for proof? Im not proposing that you have to prove anything at all?

I've just asked if someone/anyone can share any examples with me? I asked very nicely, not sure what the problem is?

StumblyMonkey · 22/02/2017 19:42

Obviously I don't recognise the problem with it...so give me a clue?

TinselTwins · 22/02/2017 19:44

You asking me to prove to you that I have experienced discrimination actually does prove that you haven't read much around feminism or race issues in general.. so that does beg the question as to how you are tackling discrinimation so much as pretty much ever group who have been descriminated against have spoken up loud and clear about the problem with this!

There are ENDLESS blogs and articles about it. If you wanted to take it upon yourself to learn about others experiences. But you say that you expect to either experience it yourself, or burden those who are less privileged than you to prove their hurt to you!

Kennington · 22/02/2017 19:47

I had never heard of Irish twins before today. However this sort of joke is rather sneering whether you meant that or not.
You are basically commenting that someone isnt able to use contraception.
It does sound like an insult.

TinselTwins · 22/02/2017 19:47

if you even skim the surface of reading up about LGBTQ issues or race issues or feminism, you would come across why you expecting people to bare their souls with examples of hurt to you in order for you to accept it exists, is not cool!

It's not my job to convince you if you can't even be bothered to put any work into improving your own knowledge, you just want to sit back and be told!

OneWithTheForce · 22/02/2017 19:49

And now you're being offended by something not said to you

No, I was angry at something I thought was said to me. I am now angry at something you said to someone else. I am allowed to be btw in case you felt like telling me I'm not.

Somehow I get the distinct feeling that any examples anyone provided would be justified/explained away/ dismissed much like the rest of this thread. People seem to want to fall over themselves to justify why they should be able to use that phrase.

Here's one I experienced recently. I eagerly await the reason why I am wrong and I wasn't discriminated against, that I am just choosing to see it that way because I like being offended. I was refused entry to a nightclub (in England) because my ID was an Irish passport. No other explanation given.

StumblyMonkey · 22/02/2017 19:50

Okay, firstly I'm a massive feminist.

Secondly I'm quite aware of discrimination because I have bipolar disorder.

Thirdly, I have been massively involved in my industry in groups tackling discrimination against women and disabilities (due to the obvious links) and LGBTQ and Afro-Carribean groups (as a supporter albeit not a minority I belong to personally).

Before I asked for examples I did google to see because I was surprised. All that came up were references to discrimination in times past and against Irish Travellers. So I did try to find my own information but couldn't.

I also think that if I asked nicely on a feminism or Afro-Caribbean thread for examples as I'd never seen any and was shocked it happened I would be given lots of examples and links to studies.

I'm not sure why this perfectly pleasant request has been met with nothing here?

StumblyMonkey · 22/02/2017 19:53

One...you entirely misunderstand me. I have no intention to tell anyone their experiences are not correct.

All I've done is ask for examples. I've not asked anyone to bare their soul, it could easily be an example that happened to someone else.

As a feminist I find it a bit odd and melo-dramatic that it would be considered baring your soul to give an example. I can't imagine feeling the same way about being asked to give examples of being discriminated against as a woman or re: my mental health. But horses for courses.

TinselTwins · 22/02/2017 19:55

I'm not sure why this perfectly pleasant request has been met with nothing here?

Oh, it must never happen then Hmm

Here's why I have no intention of bearing my soul and sharing potentially identifying, personal, and emotional/upsetting experiences with you: you don't ask in the context of empathy, or concern. You are asking us to justify our upset to you! And you don't see the massive problem with that?

TinselTwins · 22/02/2017 19:56

As a feminist I find it a bit odd and melo-dramatic that it would be considered baring your soul to give an example. I can't imagine feeling the same way about being asked to give examples of being discriminated against as a woman or re: my mental health. But horses for courses.

The I struggle to see how involved you are in feminism. There is a massive problem on feminist platforms of men asking women to demonstrate the problem to them

Doyoufeeluckypunk · 22/02/2017 19:56

I am Irish (Catholic), I have Irish twins, I call them Irish twins and... I don't find it offensive.

It was only because of another thread on here a few weeks ago that I realised people do find it offensive.

Your friends sound like drama llamas!

OneWithTheForce · 22/02/2017 19:57

I have no intention to tell anyone their experiences are not correct

So just their feelings then.

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