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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think friends are being over-senstive?

999 replies

pomadas87 · 20/02/2017 18:51

A friend (who lives abroad) messaged me and a couple of our good mutual friends - he shared happy news of his new baby and some pics. Everyone v excited and wished him congratulations!

He then said "so who's next to have a baby - she needs a playmate!" ... me and DH are newly married and are getting the question quite a lot...! Other friend said "I'm looking at you guys" (meaning me and DH)...

I then said "not for a while I'm afraid Grin why don't you have another one straightaway and you'll have Irish Twins - instant playmate!"

Meant it in a joking way and then they all called me a racist, xenophobe etc.... I didn't realise it was offensive and now I'm feeling shitty! Did they overreact to my (stupid) joke or am I just an idiot?! Confused

OP posts:
TheWinterOfOurDiscountTents · 21/02/2017 09:46

A common turn of phrase that's not derogatory to Irish people, can't think why it would be deemed offensive

It's not very common, it is absolutely derogatory, and its been explained over and over again, so clearly you just can't think at all!

I got deleted for swearing in Irish at someone! I can just imagine some google translating that just to be offended on purpose!

MadMags · 21/02/2017 09:50

I thoroughly enjoyed your swearing tents!

Willyoujustbequiet · 21/02/2017 09:54

Not offensive and used all the time in Ireland. Its not racist and I can't believe some people are so precious.

I don't know anyone except on here that would be offended by it.

ConferencePear · 21/02/2017 09:54

I had to Google Irish twins because I had never heard the expression before. I tried to think if I knew any and the only ones I could think of are the (grown up) children of Pakistani muslims.
Am I racist ?

TheWinterOfOurDiscountTents · 21/02/2017 09:58

It's not used all the time in Ireland, seriously. And you'd get many a raised eyebrow if you said it especially if you're English

OMGyoumustbekidding · 21/02/2017 09:59

Mags I hope you have met lots of other englishmen, because the one you met sounds like a right knobhead.

Coulibri · 21/02/2017 10:00

It is offensive in a number of ways.

The Irish are too stupid to know what twins really are.
The Irish are too backwards to have access to contraception.

Yes, exactly, I fail to see why even the people who are rushing on to the thread to proclaim it's a phrase they have always used without thinking so it must be fine cannot see this once it's pointed out to them. It's simply not a factual way of registering two siblings born very close together, it's specifically associating that biological fact with a network of negative, stereotypical connotations to do with Irish people being feckless, ignorant and backward.

This is the Urban Dictionary explanation:

The roots of the idea behind the term are actually quite old, although no one knows when, exactly, people first began to talk about Irish twins. In both England and the United States, a massive influx of Irish immigration in the 1800s led to a negative connotation with Irish people and society. This often happens when a large immigrant group begins to settle in mass numbers in a new country. The Irish were accused of being backwards and uncultured, and it was assumed that they were uneducated, dirty, and a general pox on society. As a result, the use of the word “Irish” began to be pejorative.

A number of derogatory terms incorporating stereotypes about the Irish began to emerge, including “Irish confetti” for thrown bricks and “Irish kiss” for a slap. Irish twins fits into this vernacular, and is actually insulting on multiple levels.

Firstly, the term pokes fun at the stereotypical fertility of Irish Catholic families, which traditionally did not use birth control. In addition, it implies that the Irish lack the ability to plan ahead or control themselves, having children in quick succession rather than responsibly spacing them. Finally, it suggests that the Irish do not understand the medical definition of twins, which involves two children conceived and born together.

Coulibri · 21/02/2017 10:03

I had to Google Irish twins because I had never heard the expression before. I tried to think if I knew any and the only ones I could think of are the (grown up) children of Pakistani muslims. Am I racist ?

I'm trying to figure out if you're being ironic here. In what way could you possibly be considered racist because the only siblings you can think of in your acquaintance who are very close in age are Pakistani Muslims?

allowlsthinkalot · 21/02/2017 10:15

I had no idea that was offensive. It's a term people with two children born within a year of each other tend to use themselves ime

InfinityPlusOne · 21/02/2017 10:24

We use it in our (Irish living in Ireland family) as I've a brother born 364 days after me. I think used by Irish people to describe themselves its quite common and is meant humourously or simply as shorthand to describe a fairly common situation up to recent times.

As to being offensive, to me it is all about context, if said in a sneery derogatory way then obviously it's meant to be offensive. If said affectionately then no. That said I'm not sure I'd be happy hearing it said by one non Irish person to another for all the reasons mentioned above in relation to the meaning behind it.

'Knackered' is a common phrase is Ireland but is actually very offensive when you look at it properly. It's linked to the derogatory term 'knacker' to describe a member of the travelling community which is always said pejoratively and is intended to be offensive.

SundialShadow · 21/02/2017 10:28

I got deleted for swearing in Irish at someone! I can just imagine some google translating that just to be offended on purpose!

Hah! Hope you wished a 'Téigh trasna ort féin' down on them Grin Wink

notarehearsal · 21/02/2017 10:31

This thread has brought to mind how I grew up using the term 'Taking the Mickey'. ( Scottish Catholic) Clearly I now appreciate just how offensive this term is and would never use it again. However, I hate the term 'taking the piss' and never quite know what to say

wantoscreamatwashingpile · 21/02/2017 10:35

I'd never heard of Irish twins as a term, and I hadn't realised that knackered and taking the Mickey were offensive! I feel embarrassed, hope I've not been offending anyone!!

Neolara · 21/02/2017 10:43

I genuinely had no idea that some people are offended by the term "Irish twins". I don't think of the expression as a joke or teasing, - just the term that is commonly used for twins born within 12 months.

Taking the Mickey is offensive? Blimey.

Thinkingofausername1 · 21/02/2017 10:46

So it's not offensive assuming people are going to have babies when they get married. I see that as offensive as people find The joke offensive. People can be so insensitive when it comes to getting married and having children. One lady constantly did this to me every time I saw her after I was married. I eventually told her why I wasn't having any straight away and she never asked again Hmm

BroomstickOfLove · 21/02/2017 10:47

Oh, that was totally offensive.

heron98 · 21/02/2017 10:48

I am Irish and not offended in the slightest.

Jeez.

There are far more important things to worry about.

SundialShadow · 21/02/2017 10:50

It's not a joke, it's racism. Read the recent posts that explain this.
This is not top trumps. Your sensitivity does not invalidate racism nor is it the same thing.
Both are wrong.

wantoscreamatwashingpile · 21/02/2017 11:01

Well now I'm not sure if taking the Mickey is offensive, I can't find anything on the internet about it?

Aeroflotgirl · 21/02/2017 11:05

Apologise and leave it at that. It was very rude if him to ask when you all are having a baby, as his baby needs a playmate, none of his business.

Aeroflotgirl · 21/02/2017 11:07

Mabey if he does want a playmate for his baby, he better get trying then,that's what I would have told him.

OneWithTheForce · 21/02/2017 11:12

Lol at people saying "Irish twin here" or "my dad was an Irish twin"

No you're not, no he wasn't. It's not a fucking thing! It's not like saying "I'm a twin and I'm not offended." A twin is an actual thing. Being Irish is an actual thing. If you are Irish and shared a uterus with a sibling then you are an Irish twin. Otherwise youre just a sibling.

NataliaOsipova · 21/02/2017 11:14

Thinking about this some more, then what about bastard? (LTB being one of the most used MN phrases ever!). Back to my earlier point - its meaning has changed. It is now commonly accepted that "he's a bastard" means "he's a bit of a shit" rather than "he is the son of unmarried parents". I can't think of a single modern day example where the word has been used to be discriminatory towards someone whose mother and father were not married. It just isn't what people mean when they use it - and hence, I would argue, it therefore isn't what it means any more. In fact, "bastard" is an excellent example of this, because to use it in its historically correct context would sound utterly ridiculous (and itself quite offensive) - e.g. "That little boy over there is the bastard son of my friends Bob and Sue".

I'd say the same is true of "throwing a paddy" etc. Most people (misled included before last night!) have no idea of the history of the phrase. Therefore it isn't what it means, in the vast majority of cases, either when it is used or when it is heard.

InfinityPlusOne · 21/02/2017 11:19

A twin is an actual thing. Being Irish is an actual thing. If you are Irish and shared a uterus with a sibling then you are an Irish twin. Otherwise youre just a sibling.

The phrase is shorthand for siblings born within the same year. Like it or not it is a thing and does have meaning. The debate here is in relation to whether or not it is offensive not whether the phrase exists or is meaningful.

OneWithTheForce · 21/02/2017 11:22

It's not a thing. It's a racist phrase. But carry on using it with that knowledge if it pleases you.

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