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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think friends are being over-senstive?

999 replies

pomadas87 · 20/02/2017 18:51

A friend (who lives abroad) messaged me and a couple of our good mutual friends - he shared happy news of his new baby and some pics. Everyone v excited and wished him congratulations!

He then said "so who's next to have a baby - she needs a playmate!" ... me and DH are newly married and are getting the question quite a lot...! Other friend said "I'm looking at you guys" (meaning me and DH)...

I then said "not for a while I'm afraid why don't you have another one straightaway and you'll have Irish Twins - instant playmate!"

Meant it in a joking way and then they all called me a racist, xenophobe etc.... I didn't realise it was offensive and now I'm feeling shitty! Did they overreact to my (stupid) joke or am I just an idiot?!

OP posts:

ILikeBeansWithKetchup · 20/02/2017 22:38

One person's oversensitivity is another's thoughtfulness

True, so true.

NoBiggie · 20/02/2017 22:39

I genuinely don't see how this is racist though- for one the Irish aren't a race but leaving that to one side for he moment... Isn't it a widely accepted turn of phase used to mean two babies born within a year of each other? Based on historical facts related to Irish women being restricted in contraception use?

It's not offensive IMO - it's a turn of phrase. Why would it be racist to say that Irish people historically on average have more children and bigger families- it's a fact.

Coulibri · 20/02/2017 22:40

It's an ethnic category, Winter, rather than a racial one, though. I'm a white Irishwoman, and wouldn't claim to be a different 'race' to my white English friends. (Great name, incidentally. I wonder if we are in the same neck of the woods. )

To whoever said that Irish people have no problem with the term -- I'm Irish, and I think Irish twins is an unpleasantly ethnic stereotyping term, redolent of associations between an 'othered' Irishness and backwardness, untrammelled breeding etc. And yes, some Irish people do use it unthinkingly. I don't think that makes it ok.

ILikeBeansWithKetchup · 20/02/2017 22:40

Perhaps RTFT for your answers to those queries biggie

ILikeBeansWithKetchup · 20/02/2017 22:42

I do think some people have an interesting political interpretation of the word 'unanimous'!

BillSykesDog · 20/02/2017 22:42

Meh. DH is not offended, he is Irish.

And I have to say the most overt xenophobia I have ever come across is from the Irish towards the British. Like that joke about 'do you realise he's British' in Gaelic sounding like 'kneecap him he's British' in English.

TheWinterOfOurDiscountTents · 20/02/2017 22:44

Another point to consider about the term Irish twins...you might use it thinking of big happy families in bygone times, but think about it; this happened a lot because women were denied the right to have any control over their fertility. They didn't have so many children, so close together because they wanted to, on the whole, but because they had no choice. Lonf after family sizes shrank in the UK, they stayed high in Ireland. And when you got condoms in chemists and the pill from the FP clinic, we were still having "Irish twins" and fighting for the right not to.

Just saying.

NataliaOsipova · 20/02/2017 22:44

Beans Gosh - no charge to plead - just an observation, really, that language changes. For example, "that's wicked". To an old person, that would mean "that is very bad/evil", not "how cool - that is great". I still struggle with "that's sick" as a positive term.

I heard someone use the term "spastic" the other day, in reference to her own DD and yes, she absolutely meant it as her daughter having been "a bit of a wally". Had it not been in public and had I known her better, I'd have gently pointed out to her that that is a term that can cause offence. But we were in a group and I don't know her well enough to do that, nor did I want to embarrass her....but I certainly wouldn't judge her as being prejudiced against the disabled on the back of one poorly judged turn of phrase. She misunderstood the meaning and connotation of the word she used.

voddiekeepsmesane · 20/02/2017 22:45

It's one of those things, if you live in Ireland or are Irish then ok to say. Otherwise can be seen as offensive IME

ILikeBeansWithKetchup · 20/02/2017 22:48

Hmmm yes Natalia some words are coming back in. Kids at school now say 'mong' which I hadn't heard for years! I do think it's all part of that anti political correctness, I speak as I find backlash. Saddens me.

PageStillNotFound404 · 20/02/2017 22:49

The thing is, some of us do know the etymology of those phrases so surely it's understandable that we might be a little put out when it's used and doesn't mean we're easily offended as some here have suggested!

Those who don't take issue with it have been clear that they weren't aware of where the phrase came from or had only heard it in a lighthearted, jokey way. Thats fair enough but if people explain where it comes from and why it might be considered offensive, then surely it's best to bear that in mind rather than imply that they are easily offended or overreacting simply because you're ok with it?

Brilliantly put.

Good on you for being so quick to apologise, OP.

The Goerdies and the Scots do have things they aim at each other, mind

IME (having grown up there) Geordies don't give a toss about the Scots because we're too busy taking the piss out of people from Sunderland.

OMGyoumustbekidding · 20/02/2017 22:51

I agree coulibri

It is shocking that we are so astounded by stereotypes about everyone outside of these islands, but if we are from inside it's acceptable to slag each other off as much as we like.

I don't ever fill those forms in right. I like to pick random races on them because it is nobody's business. I am white, but will they question why I have ticked caribbean-black or whatever.

Same with religion

I think everyone should do it. I hate being profiled.

Coulibri · 20/02/2017 22:51

Bill, there's no denying that anti-British feeling exists, for reasons you don't have to be a colonial historian to understand. What I would on the other hand be very surprised to hear you'd encountered was an Irish stereotyping of Britishness as illiterate, thick, superstitious, gullible, priest-ridden and generally backward. If anything, the lingering hostility, where it exists, is because of a historical perception of superiority.

melj1213 · 20/02/2017 22:52

My mum's family is Irish and two of my female cousins are Irish twins, we've always referred to them as such and in no way was it ever meant in a negative/derogatory way ... mostly just the easiest way to explain why they were siblings in the same school year but not twins, everyone has always understood the term and as far as I'm aware it has never caused any offence.

One of those Irish twins now has actual twin daughters and as her mother was a twin, there are already jokes in the family about which of her twins will be having the Irish twins to continue the pattern (though not for a long time yet since they're only 2yo currently)

ILikeBeansWithKetchup · 20/02/2017 22:54

Page, my whole family on dad's side are from Newcastle and called Scots 'Geordies with their brains bashed out'. The usual retort from Scots borderers was to say Geordies were 'Scots with their brains bashed oot'. It was all quite fond, though... unlike what was aimed at Machems! (sp?)

user1477282676 · 20/02/2017 22:54

It's an ignorant and rude old saying which belongs in the past.

Suggesting the Irish are "at it" all the time. Rude.

CantSleepClownsWillEatMe · 20/02/2017 22:54

Nobiggie I would argue that it's certainly not a widely accepted phrase at all. Some people (who weren't aware of the connotations) have said they don't take issue with it but plenty do.

Historically Irish women had larger families but the key word there is "historically" and yes that was down to a lack of choice and the stranglehold the Catholic church had in the past. Things have changed hugely in the past few decades. So for me anyone using that phrase now while knowing the history behind it, is very much suggesting Irish women are stuck in the past without the intelligence or ability to take any control of their lives, fertility etc.

I certainly wouldn't have a shit fit if someone used a phrase in innocence (I have an English SIL who I love dearly but o dear lordwhen she bangs on about the dc throwing a paddy...) but to be honest it gets very wearing when people justify it on the basis they didn't know the history behind it, yet still insist that those who doknow are being ridiculous to be offended by it.

TheWinterOfOurDiscountTents · 20/02/2017 22:57

no way was it ever meant in a negative/derogatory way

Almost every time its used its not actually meant in a negative way or to be mean or rude, its intended to be harmless or lighthearted or affectionate. Which is important when it comes to intent but doesn't actually mean that it doesn't still have the connotations it does.

Esspee · 20/02/2017 22:58

Some people of African ancestry living in the USA call each other niggers, a term most people find extremely offensive. On this thread we have learned that some Irish people don't consider "Irish twins" to be offensive, some do. Surely it depends whether or not any phrase is meant to be offensive by the person using it.

user1477282676 · 20/02/2017 23:08

Esspee the African American reclamation of the N word is entirely different.

TheWinterOfOurDiscountTents · 20/02/2017 23:10

Surely it depends whether or not any phrase is meant to be offensive by the person using it

Not really. Sometime could call you very offensive things but not mean offense to you, or not understand why they are saying awful things. Whether offense is meant or not makes a difference in how you respond, but not in whether offence is taken.

Coulibri · 20/02/2017 23:17

Intention, or the reclamation of traditionally pejorative terms by certain groups, is largely irrelevant. Would it be any less offensive if I greeted a bunch of African-American tourists by saying 'Yo niggaz!', with the best of friendly intentions and under the impression that I was 'speaking their language'? Would it expect them to nod and smile because I 'meant well'?

I recently had to correct a Japanese acquaintance who repeatedly described anything going wrong (a broken light switch, bad service, someone being clumsy) as 'a bit Irish'. She was very pleased with herself for using 'such a British idiom', and when I spoke to her about it, said she'd been taught it as a widely-used idiom by her English teacher from Hastings. I heard her asking her English friend later 'So this is not the right word?'

mikado1 · 20/02/2017 23:21

OMG Coulibri

TheWinterOfOurDiscountTents · 20/02/2017 23:21

That used to be very common the "that's a bit Irish" to describe something broken or silly or not quite making sense. I hope its not anymore!

pandarific · 20/02/2017 23:32

thewinter I was on holiday and hanging out with some English people I had just met. A woman shouted it unthinkingly about some Annoying thing that was happening at the resort and then realised I was sitting there and was embarrassed and apologised. I was also quite embarrassed, I didn't really know where to look, just kind of laughed it off.

It's not that I think people do it to be deliberately rude, in fact the opposite, but it does make you feel shitty. Kind of singled out and a bit looked down on, though it's not usually the intention - I'm sure it's the same when it's any minority in a majority on the receiving end.

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