Fox says MN is a no go zone. Trump agrees. So it must be true.Trump thread continued.

[amispartacus]

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2858149-Ami-Making-Mumsnet-great-again-Trump-cont

Continued.

PS it is comforting to find some of you still about at this time in the morning. I would not choose to be up at this time, but circumstances mean it is necessary. These early hours seem particularly challenging. Am waiting to 'hand over' at around 6am, when I will gladly yield to sleep.

illegitimate I can separate my love for my brother from my feelings about his politics - thankfully. I'll always love him. But that doesn't stop me being a bit ashamed of what he writes in a public forum, and somewhat concerned for him. Maybe a just need a

• I, even

Amnesty have named Trump (alongside Duterte, Erdogan and Orban - what great company!) as an example of "angry and divisive politics" in their annual report:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-39048293

How's he going to respond to that?

My sibling is also a rabid Trump supporter. I generally avoid speaking to them anyway for other reasons but when I do, I refuse to discuss politics even though they tend to bring it up at every opportunity.

I doubt the Amnesty report will be covered on Fox News, CaveMum, so probably won't even make Trump's radar.

We've started shutting conversation down with our Trump-friendly rellies, but the do make a point of what could be seen as provocative comments.

They

Sorry it's not very cheery, but may have elements of truth.
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/21/donald-trump-junta-mcmaster

Could those with relatives who are Trump voters ask them questions about their beliefs?

Say, if they think something happened in Sweden. What do they think happened? Where is their evidence? Why would anyone want to cover up? Could anyone cover up such things these days?
Have they seen any lies by Trump? If so, why do they trust him? Have they gone and checked his statements?

Yes, the Guardian may be right.
But, if he does get in good people who keep him in check and can do a good job, that's the best to be expected of a bad situation.
The question is, will they keep him in check? Will they be enough? What about the damage done by his poor appointments?

Could those with relatives who are Trump voters ask them questions about their beliefs?

I don't have rellies with these beliefs but someone I know and see regularly is very pro Trump. I just couldn't ask him because he is so ridiculous and biaised and blinkered. One of my friends (male) challenged him on something and it nearly ended up a punch-up! His beliefs are totally ingrained so I know there's absolutely no point in engaging with him.

The Brits here may enjoy this piece by the Young Turks (anyone who's not familiar they're not in Turkey) about that debate - something that doesn't seem to happen in the US anymore, they say. They even have clips with female MPs.

Roussette I know what you mean. I just can't engage with my brother on the issue. He is very stubborn once he's made his mind up about something. In a debate, quite nonsensical, but loud - there's no way.

Glad you're enjoying the Rich Hall programme SanFranBear, I thought it was very well done.

It was only when watching the bit about Dukakis and "that question" that I realised Aaron Sorkin had taken inspiration from real life when writing that scene in The West Wing where President Bartlett fluffs a similar question during debate prep just to piss Toby off!

I am just reading this article on the guardian a about Putin. Really interesting and gives a more nuanced picture of him than you usually get. I may be getting slightly obsessed by Putin.

www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/22/vladimir-putin-killer-genius-kleptocrat-spy-myths

I had t mentioned that we had an awful plane crash very close to my house yesterday. 5 killed including 4 tourists from Texas. Just turned on the Tv to see Angry Spice offering Trumps' condolences.

Lweji
brilliant clip, thanks

Good clip. Wish they'd shown all the protesters outside tho!

Re family members voting for Trump (I'm going to conflate that with ukip and Brexit too due to the geographical spread of my family), I have American relatives in both mine and my DH side of the family ( but live in the UK).

Most of our American family members are/were left leaning Democrats (some were actual card carrying members of the Communist party who fled the USA under McCarthyism. My PIL are glad that all but 2 of that generation died before they could see the rise of Trump. PIL are not in America now, and are horrified at what's happening in the USA and Europe. I have several first and second cousins who have migrated from the UK to USA and at least one voted for and supports Trump, very vocally. If he was in the U.K. He'd be voting UKIP, I'm sure of it.

Most of my family are Tories who voted UKip and Brexit, I realise that they have the right to their own opinions but I'm ashamed to say my parents voted that way because they are both racist and xenophobic (my siblings, it's more complex, partly they want to toe the line with my parents, and I don't think they are racist but they are xenophobic). I suppose they always did have those opinions but now they are very loud and forthright. It has absolutely affected my relationship ship with my family, that I am "the liberal elite". They read the daily mail, support ukip via facebook, like Britain first memes etc and claim that they "are only saying what everybody thinks".
I feel ashamed of them . I realise that they probably feel that way toward me too and that also makes me feel sad.

I actually think it is harder to challenge family about these things than people you don't know as well. With family you have a whole different emotional ballgame to deal with. There are also often ingrained hierarchies and power plays that come in to effect meaning people take criticism more personally and can be less willing to back down or compromise. Thankfully all my family are lefty types, even the brother I am no contact with for many reasons I am pretty confident would be anti-trump. However, there are certainly plenty of times I have got locked into arguements with them that just would not have happened with other people as the relationship is so different.

Yiannopoulos to start new media company
thehill.com/homenews/media/320513-yiannopoulos-to-start-new-media-company

I realise it was to much to hope for that he would just crawl back into the hole he scrambled out of. I can only hope that everyone just ignores him like the distasteful fascist cousin that you only ever see at weddings and funerals.

The problem with confronting friends and family members head on is that it can quickly reach a point where you have nowhere left to go except to call them stupid.

Even on-line that does little to further understanding,

With our "enlightenment" and education and thoughtfulness and "intelligence", it's so easy to forget sometimes that we're all animals deep down, with pack instincts and visceral urges.

Even as I write that it sounds smug but I don't really mean it to. More, god, yes I though we were moving "past" racism, homophobia and so on, but that's not necessarily ever going to be the reality of the human condition.

Does that make sense or am I just pontificating? Another day of being shattered here.

My dad became v right wing in the eighties, loved Thatcher and it became impossible to have a decent discussion with him without him ranting. Once I asked him why he hated black pp so much and he replied, ' cos they're all rapists, muggers and thieves'. Hard to argue with someone when their beliefs simply aren't based on anything rational.

Made me a life long leftie tho!