To dare speak about Vaxxed on MN?

[thegoodfight]

NC for this but a regular.

So I've just watched the documentary Vaxxed. I know how vaccine threads unfold on MN, so I'm ready to be told IABU however I feel like everyone should see this whatever your views - it's about the cover up around studies into autism and MMR

There is an admission from a CDC insider that he worked on the study and hid data which proved a link (a strong an quite frankly astounding one) and the data was sent to an external biologist who saw it for himself. There are first hand accounts from parents, scientists, doctors and politicians. The CDC haven't denied anything or called their lawyers despite it being an allegation of the biggest medical fraud ever (not exact words but something along those lines)

I just can't believe it's not been in the news! AIBU to ask if anyone else is planning to watch it??

Sorry Charlie all of that is correlation, lacks any underpinning science.

Debate requires 2 sides being willing to exchange thoughts, understandings, proofs with an eye to reaching new understanding, No anti vaxxer does that!

You may question anything you like. Just don't posit your thoughts as 'proof' of anything or push for them to be taken as a real cause for concern.

Food allergies are complex. Everything in our environment probably has an impact, for someone. But you can only posit correlation...

There are too many parents who swear blind their child was damaged by vaccines and we must respect their views No, we must have sympathy for them having been sucked in by a charlatan and an unthinking media!

Quibble quibble... all sorts of quibbling!

"If there ever was a link proved. I would still take the chance of a child with autism over not vaccinating. Autism is not the end of the world."

What a cavalier attitude. For the sake of the so called herd immunity I have subjected my child to the vaccinations, persuaded by the Yale educated pediatricians (we lived in the States then). Which I will regret as long as I live. My 14-year-old who was a little chatterbox is now totally non verbal, with huge learning/developmental delays. He will never hold a relationship, will never have a job, will always need to be looked after. Once we are old and die, he will be at the mercy of care home, unloved and vulnerable.
I look in his beautiful eyes and think, I am so sorry for what I have done.
Fuck the attitude, that autism is not the end of the world. It is, in many cases. And we have to live with it.

Ooh, I had a dream where I proved that the increase in food allergies was caused by genetic changes due to a higher level of cleanliness, so it's happened over generations for decades.
Probably bollocks, but I woke up feeling very clever. I should write a Lancet paper on it maybe....

Bumbley, I was being sarcastic about the birthday party, the children for the study were hand picked in conjunction with an anti vaccine group.

What studies have been done though?

Specifically on kids who received multiple vaccines and those that didn't?

Or those that received the MMR and those that didn't?

My issue with food allergies is that no one can tell me why the rates have rocketed.

So I look at what has changed. And vaccines is one (of many!) and I believe we need a lot more research here

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1808956.stm

Here are some, from 2008.

Lots of money being wasted on reassuring parents who are still convinced by his lies!

noblegiraffe, but if the option is MMR or nothing then many parents will choose nothing (unless they pay for singles). I think the whole thing was dealt with very badly. If you want to ensure that children are protected from measles/have a certain level of coverage then you need to keep the choice if there are concerns about one of the options - at least until further investigations had been carried out.

My issue with food allergies is that no one can tell me why the rates have rocketed.

Well, no one can identify 1 single cause. www.allergyuk.org/why-is-allergy-increasing/why-is-allergy-increasing

No, dawndonna, I don't think you were.

I refer you to my previous post. How many more will satisfy you?

As a mother of a child with autism let me tell you two things of our case

1 our daughter noticeably changed after the MMR particularly the second dose that was within a few months of the first due to the outbreak in wales.

2 the MMR was not the cause of her autism looking back there were subtle signs she was autistic at birth.

While some children suffer vaccine damage those who are fighting for autism awareness are actually fed up with the sidelining of care to this. Especially when so many studies over long periods have proved it false. This man (I won't call him a doctor) scared a lot of people for his own personal financial gain. I am also fed up with anti vaxxers telling me my child needs to be fixed, she doesn't she is an amazing, compassionate individual

What further investigations are needed? Besides the several, conclusive studies since the whole irresponsible and dangerous scaremongering "study" that kicked all this off??

Ito those saying the studies have been done - I was referring to the withdrawal of the singles vaccine six months after the initial scare.

saor are you seriously suggesting we need no more research?

To be so closed minded and with utter faith in "science" astounds me.

Don't put words in my mouth, I said nothing about being closed minded and having utter faith in science. What I said was that there have been several, conclusive studies completely disproving the link between the MMR and autism, and yet here we are with people peddling the frankly irresponsible and dangerous myth that there is a link. I didn't give my kids the swine flu vaccinations because there wasn't enough evidence to support its viability and safety. I did give them the MMR because there is, and because the side effects of measles, mumps and rubella can have life long, life changing side effects.

My concerns about the MMR relate to allergies in kids, food allergies and increasing autoimmunity.

I'm not sure what to think about autism which I think a largely genetic but we can't explain its increasing prevalence either

I have utter faith in science. Because I'm aware it's hypothesis testing and isn't meant to carve things into stone. Scientists understand confounding variables, the difference between correlation and causation and the issues with sample size, double blind studies and ethical issues working with children.

Shame other people don't.

Charlieismydarling the increase in prevalence is down to better recognition

Which has been explained numerous times in this thread. None so blind...

But we don't know why all these conditions are increasing (leaving aside autism for now)

Lots of theories.

What if vaccines are the tipping point?

FWIW I dated a GP years ago who was (privately) convinced MMR did cause autism in a minority of cases but the overall benefits outweighed the risks. There is no consensus!

I'm on the autistic spectrum and I'm awesome.
I'm also alive and very healthy. Thanks to my parents who vaccinated me.
Look up the Penn and Teller video about vaccines on YouTube, you won't be disappointed!

Urban, I linked to the video earlier in the thread, page 2 I think it's my favourite and makes me giggle every time I watch it.

"I have utter faith in science."

You really shouldn't, Mrs Pratchett! Scientists are human beings. They lie, they manipulate data, they become wedded to their favourite hypothesis even in the face of contradictory evidence, and some of them take money from dubious sources. While I'd agree that science is much the best way of investigating and making sense of the world, we shouldn't be uncritical about it. Look at the way, for example, that scientists pushed the line that dietary fat was bad for us, ignoring evidence to the contrary. (Other examples available on demand.)

Notanotherpawpatrol - omg yes it's hilarious! 😂