AIBU to think that professionals shouldn't immediately lecture on 'breast is best' without checking WHY you're not breastfeeding?

[Bellabelloo]

Every single doctor, midwife, health visitor, doctor has given me a disapproving look and lecture on breast being best and asking whether I've given it a proper try etc without actually asking WHY I'm not breastfeeding. When I tell them that I had breast cancer when I was 30 and that I had to have a double mastectomy it shuts them up pretty quickly.

But I do feel really upset by it. I feel guilty that I can't breastfeed. I already feel like less of a woman having had my breasts removed, and now I am being made to feel like less of a mother.

There are many, many reasons why women might not be able to breastfeed and I just think the medical professionals should just ask whether there is a reason a woman has chosen not to breastfeed before judging and lecturing.

That's not unreasonable, is it?

Oh ffs 'mimics the closeness and comfort' mini it's like even in your helpful posts you can't help but have a snide dig

Faux-helpful.

Really it's just a way of making a snide dig but pretending to dress it up in "helpful information", complete with sad faces to 'mimic' (arf) compassion.

It's all very transparent TBH.

But when all the world's your stage, even when it's entirely inappropriate and cruel to bang your drum, some people just can't help themselves.

Different thread day, same shit.

'encourages mothers to be responsive' ?

Because non breastfeeding mothers aren't responsive to their children? Have you got some studies to back that up?

Breastfeeding is great, I'm in no way anti breastfeeding. But it's just one part of the overall picture. In real life the mother I know who breastfed most successfully, continuing until were two years old, later had her children removed due to neglect. She was an excellent mother to a small baby, totally attentive to their needs, but couldn't cope at all with an older child. Breastfeeding does not make you a better mother.

Just to clarify, it doesn't make you a worse mother (obviously!), just pointing out that it is one part of a huge jigsaw.

HCP should just respect and support the choices mothers make about feeding their newborn.

Unless there is a reason for HCP to get involved such as dramatic weight loss.

It's about a way of bottle feeding which encourages mothers to be responsive to their babies and mimics the closeness and comfort which babies and mums can get with breastfeeding

Urgh this is so patronising and presumptive it's really enraging. My bottle fed DS hardly left my arms for the first year of his life. I was head over heels in love with him and, as he was my PFB, I didn't have to juggle giving him attention with any siblings. When he fed during the day he was in my arms, when he slept during the day it was almost always in my arms and to be honest at night it wasn't always much different. I'm more relaxed now with the second child and not nearly so intense but having my first was so life changing and amazing to me I don't see how (apart from failing at breastfeeding) I could have been more responsive and comforting (and I'm not suggesting everyone else should behave the same way, I do realise now I was OTT ).

But sure continue to peddle the idea that this who formula feed care less about their children than breastfeeders and aren't as interested in nurturing and comforting them

OP, congratulations! You are a super mum, and you are doing the absolute best for your baby.

"Breast is best" doctrine really is not helpful, though, and support for breastfeeding mums is terribly limited. Pushing the message without providing the support behind it puts women in an impossible position and was, personally, terrible for my mental health.

I really, really wanted to BF my son. I did my absolute best, and tried to get as much help as I could. He lost 13% of his birth weight, but the midwife just kept telling me to try harder. I was feeding for 45 minutes, pumping following the feed to increase supply (usually took me around 30 minutes to get 10 ml), trying to look after myself for about 10 minutes, then starting the cycle over. My son was still losing weight.

I had a post-natal doula, who said she couldn't help with BFing, but referred me to a lactation consultant. I phoned the lactation consultant in tears, and she said she couldn't come due to a cold, but gave me two names of her colleagues. She didn't have numbers, but said they would be easy to find online. They weren't.

My husband went out and bought some formula, and did a bottle feed, as he was getting concerned about my growing despondency and our son's failure to gain weight. My son and I both slept afterwards for more than an hour for the first time in the three weeks since he was born. I began mixed feeding, but the next time I saw the midwife, she first congratulated me that my son had finally started to recover some of his lost weight, but then tutted at me for "giving up" saying that our experience was "pretty normal" for breast feeding and if I had persevered, it would all have worked out in the end.

I subsequently developed postnatal depression and had to go on anti-depressants, which ended the mixed feeding. I have long felt that, with better support, I might have been able to continue some breast feeding for longer and may have avoided needing medication. Obviously, that's impossible to prove one way or the other, but I felt badly let down by the professionals who were pushing BF but unable to see the negative impact their exclusionary message was having on me.

Perhaps I am one of the supposedly "rare" people who doesn't make enough milk. But my biggest regret is that I felt very little joy in the first weeks of my son's life because I was holding myself to an irrelevant "gold standard." I had done a lot of research before giving birth, and the rational part of my mind knew that, with access to clean water, kettles, etc, formula was also a great option, but the pressure to do the "best" for my baby drove me to a very dark place.

Lactivists, or even snide, pushy "breast is best, but I suppose you're not actively harming your baby" comments do nothing but allow the person making them to feel personal satisfaction at kicking people when they're down whilst pretending to be caring.

Infinity, that rings bells for me too. I ff my first and bf my second. The first got much more attention and cuddles as I had the bloody time, not because of the way I fed him. The second one has survived I hasten to add

I appreciate that people who don't value breastfeeding won't see it as a choice more important than the buggy someone buys for their baby, but for those of us who see breastfeeding as being of value - it will always be something worth advocating for.

Maybe not in a thread by a breast cancer survivor who's had a double mastectomy?

Or indeed, a little less 'advocacy' from HCP would be appreciated by mothers in the OP's position?

Theres advocacy, and then there's bullying.

Mine too birdsdestiny

Hi Bellabelloo,
We just wanted to pop on and say congratulations on your pregnancy, we're glad that you have received the support you needed. For those who wish to go over the merits of BF/FF there are plenty of other threads, we reckon, but as to your OP we personally would favour the approach suggested by the magnificent WhereYouLeftIt. In case you missed it, press Ctrl+F and type in the word "arse". #talktothehand

Well said Helen

I could argue that it was the mantra that 'Breast is Best' that led to ds2 being admitted to hospital, with a diagnosis of Failure to Thrive (a terrifying thing to hear about your baby).

I had failed to breastfeed ds1 - as I said earlier, he had neonatal jaundice, that was severe enough at one point for him to be under two sets of lights, and I was told I had to supplement his breast feeds with formula. How could I, a new mum, argue with the HCPs who were telling me he needed this, to treat his jaundice? Even though I did manage to go back to fully breastfeeding him on discharge, I never got it established properly - he always seemed hungry, and even pumping after every feed, for 10 days, didn't boost my supply at all - so I ended up having to put him on formula.

This was in the early '90s, so way before the arrival of the internet, and the easy access it offers to information and support. I had the NCT (I hired the hospital grade breast pump from them), but no-one had any ideas on how to improve my supply.

So when ds2 came along, I was so determined I was going to breast feed him. He was born at home, and wasn't jaundiced, so there was no reason for him to need top ups.

I tried so hard - he was on the breast almost constantly, all my waking hours, or so it seemed - and yet he lost 10oz from his birthweight, and at 6 weeks old, he had not regained that - he had gained maybe half of what he had lost - I have photos of him from that time, and he looks so pale and thin, it breaks my heart.

My HV was so worried about his lack of weight gain that she came to visit me every day or every other day, to weigh him. She would tell me he HAD to gain half an ounce a day. She even, at one point, said that SHE had to think of the best interests of my baby - as if I wasn't!

At 6 weeks old, ds2 woke up from a nap chesty and wheezy, so the GP sent us to the hospital. He got antibiotics for the chest infection, but what really worried the HCPs was his lack of weight gain - that was what led them to admit him. I heard the staff, at hand over, say the dreadful phrase 'Failure to Thrive' about him - that was terrifying.

No-one did anything to find out why he was feeding so much yet not gaining weight - and the only option I was offered was formula top ups. And as it was made pretty clear to me that ds2 would not be leaving hospital until he was gaining weight satisfactorily, I felt I had no option but to introduce formula - and once I started formula top ups, that spelled the end of breast feeding for us.

At that time, there was not the same amount of support or information available - there might have been things I could have done to improve my milk or my supply - but neither I, nor anyone else I spoke to, knew anything I could do.

Looking back, when I think of how thin and sad ds2 got, before the point where he was admitted to hospital - I wonder if I did go on too long, trying to make breastfeeding work. If I had introduced formula top ups a few weeks earlier, he might not have got the chest infection (maybe he was weakened because he wasn't getting enough nourishment), and even if he had, we wouldn't have ended up staying in hospital, because his weight gain would have been OK.

It is possible that I was too committed to the idea that Breast was Best, and as a result, my child ended up in hospital.

YANBU. I don't think anyone should ever "lecture" about breast being best. Highlighting the benefits of it, certainly, but everyone has the right to their own choice and no one should ever be made to feel bad about it.

FWIW I didn't breastfeed, out of choice, had no reason other than I just didn't fancy it, wanted my husband to do one of the night feeds so we could both get 6 hours sleep a night etc. I was the only one who didn't among all of my friends/NCT etc. I never once had any professional - or anyone else for that matter - raise any eye at me. They're lucky they didn't, they'd have had a proper dressing down from me.

The first couple of months can be stressful enough with a newborn, women beating themselves up for something they don't want to or physically can't do is madness.

SDTG failure to thrive is bloody horrible. FWIW DD2 (my neonatal one) ended up with a diagnosis despite a decent amount of milk, I only know cos she was tube fed so it was expressed. I still felt like a massive failure and that was without the amount of stress you were put under. She started gaining weight when switched (by a consultant) to nutriprem.

Whenever I hear the "breast is best" spiel I always think well it wasn't for her.

YANBU

When I was a new mum I tried breastfeeding but couldn't do it. I have autism and am hypersensitive to certain stimuli. The sensation of breastfeeding triggered me so badly that I seriously thought about killing myself so I wouldn't have to do again.

I posted about it on MN at the time because being autistic I don't have anyone in real life to talk to. Most people were kind and supportive. But one poster really stuck out. She told me that my 'excuse' wasn't good enough, that I just wasn't trying hard enough, and that I was selfish and prioritising myself over my baby. I see from this thread that she's still at.

Whenever I hear the "breast is best" spiel I always think well it wasn't for her.

When DD2 was admitted to hospital for poor weight gain, I remember sitting in a waiting room surrounded by 'breast is best' posters

With breastfeeding it's supposed to be sometimes hard to know how much your baby is actually getting. With expressing though I knew DD was getting the right amount, she was NG tube fed and it was made up to the exact milligram.

I remember being on the phone to me mam crying that I was poisoning DD. It was really horrible.

Never found an explanation, I wasn't smoking drinking or taking any medication it was just completely random.

The staff were lovely about it, couldn't fault them at all.

Jumping please take no notice. It says far more about her shortcomings than anything else

Paced feeding is used to mimic breastfeeding in terms of milk flow so babies that are combination fed or transitioning to breast or formula don't get frustrated. None of the midwives mentioned bonding to me, it was all about matching milk flow to keep both going and stopping babies from getting annoyed with slower flow. Science not emotion.

And it's very frustrating for a bottle fed baby, it just distressed my baby boy. For my bf friend it also was frustrating and for both it gave them so much wind. I'd chose the medela support if ever I needed to do both or transition.

Jumping

Take no notice whatsoever....if I'd have ever wanted to BF, it's exactly that kind of poster who would put me right off. Awful.

Firstly, and most importantly OP Congratulations :D and I am so sorry you have experienced this. I absolutely agree that people in healthcare (and in general) should be cautious when speaking with a new mother with regards to feeding. It is a contentious subject with considerable emotions attached to it. In your case in particular it is beyond insensitive to comment on feeding before knowing the reasons why someone isn't breast feeding. Honestly I don't think there is ever a case for someone lecturing or even commenting on a mother who is clearly formula feeding - the decision has obviously been made and is now no one else's business.

Yours is a major example of why some woman cannot breastfeed, but in fact quite rare. the overwhelming majority of women can in fact breastfeed.

Secondly, this comment really irritated me. You have NO IDEA who can and cannot breast feed. When I had my first child (who is 12 now) I tried and tried to breast feed, had numerous bf 'specialists' and midwives 'help' me. I hadn't even CONSIDERED formula. I wanted to breast feed. I was actually in hospital for several weeks so I had the dubious benefit of many people helping me. These would include the BF consultant who kindly (even with my notes) informed me that formula is poison - and no, I'm no joking. I was put on Domperidone to induce the milk - didn't work, I expressed so my baby would have some - got hardly any out. I was devastated. After the lectures and manhandling and attitude of the 'helpers' I encountered I had to be referred to a psychologist as the whole thing has reduced me to someone who could barely speak without crying. I suffered severe post natal depression which I am positive was helped along by the 'breast is best' tub thumping I was subjected to daily. Bearing in mind I WANTED to breast feed, tried very hard for weeks and was on medication for it it was a bit of a shock when the midwives would barely look at me when giving me the formula and wouldn't give me any feeding advice because they 'weren't allowed to' despite knowing exactly what was going on with me as I was on their ward.

This is not the only story I have come across like this, some women cannot breast feed for many reasons and comments like the above aren't helpful. For the record I also tried to feed my second child but had to resort to mixed feeding (also in hospital with my child for a few weeks after - premature and in NICU and I was ill) and I didn't have enough milk for that child either. I worked hard at it - I really did.

NOBODY knows why a person can't breast feed and no one person can categorically state that it is rare (I am not the only person in my family and circle of friends who have had a similar experience) so commenting and lecturing people on this issue is grossly insensitive and ignorant. I believe in trying to breastfeed if you can but I would never ever comment on a person's method of feeding. It simply isn't my business.

Once again OP I am so sorry you have experienced this - and I apologise for the rant on your thread. I thought I was past being irritated by feeding threads!

Minifingerz out of interest, do you only respond to feeding threads? It's pretty much the only time I see you and you are habitually insensitive on them. Do you have a little alarm that goes off when a feeding thread comes up? I know your type, I encountered them many times in my baby feeding days and they never failed to make me feel like crap. You can be in favour of supporting breastfeeding and breast feeding mothers without being insensitive and sanctimonious. Have you ever thought 'stop - this may not be the thread for my brand of campaigning'? If you haven't might I suggest this that THIS thread is one you might want to leave alone.

Ev1 did you find the staff in neonatal more understanding then the general wards?

Minifingerz approach is the epitome of what those with bad experiences with breastfeeding promotion complain about. For someone so passionate about her cause she certainly manages to do significant damage to it by being so cloth-eared and insensitive.