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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask whether you would judge someone who did not live with their children due to SS?

163 replies

SharkiraSharkira · 17/02/2017 17:50

Assuming you only knew this and no other information about the situation? Would you automatically judge that they had done something wrong?

Just curious as there have been a few SS related threads recently and it's aroused my curiosity.

OP posts:
FeliciaJollygoodfellow · 18/02/2017 11:25

I'm sorry for your situation.

I think sadly people gossip and stories get convoluted. I would judge you as making the best decision out of a bad situation if I knew you'd chosen to have your children live apart from you.

Have you heard the story of the Caucasian Chalk Circle? A baby is abandoned in a road and is cared for by a woman. When the child is older, the birth mother wants the child back. In the village court, they put the child in a circle drawn on the ground and the judge says whoever can pull the baby out wins the child. The adoptive mother gives up and says she won't, whereas the birth mother is happy to injure her child because of her 'rights'. And the judge says, the adoptive mother is the true mother for considering the needs of the child before her own.

Flowers
Mittensonastring · 18/02/2017 11:36

I have known 3 women who have had dc removed. Two due to severe MH issues and one due to DV. I don't judge them at all. I came in to contact with them via a charity. One of them willingly gave her baby up without a fight because she knew she wouldn't cope at all. TBH sometimes being the best Mother possible means letting others raise your dc.

Society judges women who live apart for their dc and it's very wrong as Fathers don't get this level of judgement.

Wishing you peace op

SharkiraSharkira · 18/02/2017 11:43

I know, its very strange isn't it mittens? You can live apart from your kids if you are a man and no one thinks anything of it but if you are a woman you can end up completely ostracised. Its very unfair.

Thank you for your kind words. It's very hard to talk about.

OP posts:
BitterAndOnlySlightlyTwisted · 18/02/2017 11:54

I don't think any parent lives apart from their children "due to" Social Services. They live apart from them due to their own behaviour, failings or problems.

It's my understanding that the focus of SS is to support families in difficulty rather than to spirit the kids away in the dead of night for trivial or non-existent reasons. There generally has to be pretty serious or long-standing non-engagement in order to lose your kids.

I wouldn't judge if I didn't know the reasons why.

Kikikaakaa · 18/02/2017 12:16

I my experience of a relative as I mentioned, SS gave everything to the family in resources to help but it wasn't enough and the parent just didn't want the kids anymore. She struggles with them once they are teenagers and just stops parenting them completely (she has many kids and has repeated this with each one, blaming the children) so eventually the kids have to go into care, then she has a change of heart and tries to take them back, then it fails. IMO SS gave her too many chances and were too soft, all this did was give the kids instability and confusion. I still see the kids and they are so messed up. A good solid foster placement would have been so much kinder to them. Sad

AwaywiththePixies27 · 18/02/2017 12:41

Society judges women who live apart for their dc and it's very wrong as Fathers don't get this level of judgement.

Completely agree. I know of a few men who have brought their children up singlehandedly because the mother is neither use nor ornament. Yet at the same time it's more than acceptable for the Father to walk away if he wants to. No body brands him a shit father or bad person it's just become socially acceptable. It's something my ex has never managed to comprehend. When we were together, he'd have some friends when visiting asking why he was changing the DCs nappy or feeding them as it was 'your wife's job' Hmm. They never did like his replies that changing a nappy didnt make him any less of a man. Our relationship didnt survive but he has a consistent relationship with the DCs and basically a couple of his mates have buggered off and left their Childs mother high and dry.

I've just been watching Judge Rinder (child free afternoon - dont judge me) where a man refused to pay maintenance for his son because according to him the mother wasn't fit, right, but that unfit you didn't mind her bringing your kids up though?

At the end of the day OP. The only peoples opinions who will truly matter in the end of you is your DCs.

Clnz4fun · 18/02/2017 12:44

Not without information no, there are a lot of reasons why a child might be in social care from mental health of the parents to out right abuse and other circumstances.

My eldest dsis went into social care when I was a dc and although my dm not perfect she wasn't bad either. My sis was just out of control and it was the very last option after yrs of it my dm took it.

Lots of reasons I know and some I don't know but I think in the beginning it would have been a child acting out due to my df dying and it snowballed until there was no turning back for her.

I think she was let down by ss and my dm at the time but not without them trying.

NeedsAsockamnesty · 18/02/2017 14:32

Same question to all those pp who say they wouldn't let them look after their children. Obviously I can understand the risk if the person in question was abusive or an addict but what if they weren't? Why would you think them a risk to your child?

Risk is a interesting thing.

You may think risk that the person would hurt or abuse your child, where as I may think "do I need to expose my children to the risk that I could be asked to justify my decision to leave my child in their care and have my children placed elsewhere for about a minimum of 16 weeks,whilst someone else decides if my choice was acceptable or not"

Fwiw as a person no I would not judge because you asked would you without knowing why.
Having been a SW (now not) for years and years and felt a great deal of sadness at many situations that are beyond the parents control,and heard enough judges make comments along the lines of "it is without a doubt that you love your child,it is without a doubt that you have not harmed your child, it is however without a doubt that the situation they have been placed in has now led to them thriving and being settled elsewhere and it would be harmful to change that" to not do so.

In my personal life I have two friends who have had kids removed one is no longer a friend because of the situation the other I feel the greatest sadness for, it was not her fault not even a tiny bit of it and I feel partially responsible for the events because it was me with my faith in a service that advised her to contact them for support for her clearly disabled child.

Who ended up in care as a result of his disability against her will but on a very misused sec 20 thst did end up months later in court, threshold criteria was never met, she was accused of making up his disability SS making up the issues he was having,they blocked her obtaining any help and support for him both in the 18 months of involvement prior to the sec 20 then whilst he was on the sec 20 because apparently doing so was emotional abuse,They then very effectively alienated her.
He is now a LAC and very surprisingly attending one of the most sought after indie specialist school placements solely for children with his supposedly imaginary disability and has been in 5+ foster homes because nobody else can manage him either. Sadly she despite still having PR has not even been informed that he has a DX now nor has she been told what school he attends so she has no clue about any of this.
And yes I have seen every single document including the court stuff and yes the judge in the case totally agrees with me as does every single professional I sent her way to try and help.

You may be asking yourself what grounds the CO was finally granted on if the judge agreed that she hadn't abused her child in any way or was not at risk of doing so? Well care orders can also be granted under another criteria and one that a honest loveing decent parent would have no choice but to agree to under those circumstances and would do so because of the best interests of her child despite it only being in her best interests because of the LA.
And that is not identifying at all because the area is notorious for it.

Kikikaakaa · 18/02/2017 14:37

I would not leave my kids with my relative because I do not think she possesses a good level of parenting common sense

elliejjtiny · 18/02/2017 14:40

Op I very much admire your selflessness.

I wouldn't judge anyone, especially without knowing the full story. I like to think that truly "bad people" are rare and that most people who have had their dc removed by ss are people who have suffered themselves, made mistakes or are unable to care for a child due to lack of support, mental health problems, disability etc.

It wouldn't stop me being friends with someone. I don't think it would affect babysitting. I'm really fussy about who I leave my dc with anyway though. Ds5 is 2.5 and I've only ever let 2 people look after him (not including his dad and preschool)

NeedsAsockamnesty · 18/02/2017 14:43

Sorry where I have a random SS it should say by SS

alltouchedout · 18/02/2017 14:48

No, for two reasons.
1, I know someone personally whose dc were removed by social services and she is a lovely woman who loves her dc. I do think the decision to remove was the right one but I know that she is as much a victim of the situation as the dc. I'm not compromising her privacy by giving details so please don't anyone anyone's me to.
2, I'm a social worker (not children and families) so I know things are very rarely as black and white as the Daily Mail etc would like to make out. I also know that many people who cannot provide 'good enough' parenting have had appalling lives themselves. That doesn't excuse them- it's not OK for their dc to suffer because they suffered- but it provides context.

I do of course judge people, but never on an automatic 'dc removed? What scum they must be' basis.

IHaveBrilloHair · 18/02/2017 14:49

I wouldn't without knowing details.
My DD is in care because of her behaviour, but it's voluntary, she can come to mine and stay over whenever she wants, the Children's unit she lives in is next door and she's currently with me.
I'm sure some people do judge me, but I know it was for the best, SS were, and remain completely useless so I get her as much support as I can and I pay for it.

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