To ask whether you would judge someone who did not live with their children due to SS?

[SharkiraSharkira]

Assuming you only knew this and no other information about the situation? Would you automatically judge that they had done something wrong?

Just curious as there have been a few SS related threads recently and it's aroused my curiosity.

Wow everyone is so right on and non-judgemental.

If I knew someone had had their children removed then I would judge them as an unfit parent. Of course I would.

Whenever there's a thread on here about children being 'abducted' by SS there's always a lot of rebuttal and most people agree that it is scaremongering and cherry picking by the parents and that SS are in the right. But worded this way, no one would judge? I don't believe most of you saying that.

Funnily enough I've just been discussing this with my SW.

My son may well end up having to go into LA care because he's a risk (( severe Autism )) if the things we currently have in place (( He's just started on meds, we have self defence classes coming up, I'm on a system whereby if I call the.police they'll come without me having to speak and talks of having a panic alarm of some sort. We keep all knives locked away and we manage.

He has massive loud meltdowns and is capable of extreme aggression (( rare because we have a lot in place but due to his size extremely dangerous )) and as a result we've been judged horribly by our neighbours (( yep, twat at number 4 your judgement is really helpful )) God knows what they'll be saying when he does go.into care, I really hope those who know us don't judge us too and think we just didn't do enough 😑😑😑

I know a couple of mums who do not live with their children and never will, some of these people have gone on to have more children that have stayed with them. The common theme is that at the time the children were taken/ given up they were unable to look after them for different reasons but circumstances have since changed. Even though they would be capable of looking after these children now it is not possible because the children are settled and it would be too disruptive to them. I do not judge that.
Some children have medical needs that cannot be met by the parents, some children are unable to live with a sibling, many many reasons.

I do however massively judge the mum I know who had her first baby removed at a few weeks old, her second at birth and I KNOW will continue to push out babies that she has no chance of being allowed to keep because of her stupid foolish choices. I judge her.

True Trolls but some of the 'reasons' people are unfit parents are not because they are awful people but due to lack of support/addiction/abusive relationship/mental health issues/bad upbringing etc. Some of these are not their fault. Obviously someone who is neglectful and selfish and intentionally abuses their child is very different to someone who has a mental breakdown and can't cope.

What does this virtue signalling "wouldn't judge" actually mean?

If I found out about this my view would be that professionals had decided the person couldn't look after their children. I would probably wonder whether they had a drug problem, were mentally ill or abusive. Or had rejected their children. I would be polite to them and not mention it but sure as hell wouldn't let them babysit.

I've had my kids removed by ss and I judge myself more than anyone else can. Nobody on this planet can give me a harder time than I give myself . Life without your kids is no life at all. My Children are so very much loved , wanted children . I adore the bones of them but I messed up I guess. Hands up. But due to funding cuts and an overworked system a lot of kids are being failed by the system too. Kids in care are not always better off. But a lot of people think that's just lies told by us scum parents who couldn't look after our kids.

I would add tho that carers that ss use are not perfect either. My kids have been removed from a couple due to alcohol issues which broke my Sons heart. Hes now with carers who ss admit they aint happy with because he clashes with the male.

Children are removed for abuse (physical, sexual, emotional) or neglect. I recognise that family circumstances E.g. DV can make it difficult to protect and care for children properly but help is offered unless a child is in imminent danger and needs safeguarding.

In answer to your question, yes I would judge. However, with motivation and the right help, people can and do change.

Yes, SS taking children away is truly a last resort and where a parent has failed. I would judge any parent who failed to care for their children and the authority had had to step in.

I would prefer to think that the person in question had had such awful problems that they had been unable to parent. Rather than there being a sinister reason for the removal of their dc.

But, in all honesty, unless I knew the truth about the situation, there would always be a little doubt in my mind. The "But what if there was abuse?" thoughts would creep in.

What does this virtue signalling "wouldn't judge" actually mean?

It's pretty self explanatory.

Yes probably. Doesn't mean I wouldn't be nice to her though.

I knew a mother once who'd had five children removed. The two youngest had been in foster care on and off since birth, they were about three and four years old when I knew her and she hadn't seen them for nearly a year. SS wanted them adopted and took her to court to that end. She fought them, and stopped them being adopted. I asked her was she working towards having them back, she said 'no' that she couldn't have them back because she was busy (this wasn't the actual word she used, I can't remember, but that was the gist) but that she was their mum and she wouldn't have anybody else having them or calling somebody else mum'. I really judged her for that and not letting her children go for the chance of a better life even though she had no intention of having them back herself.

wouldn't judge, but would mind my own business

Would I judge? I think it's more than I would wonder.... If she never chose to explain the circumstances, I would feel it hanging there in the air. It would probably be an obstacle to our closeness. But I would also have a loop in my head telling me not to make assumptions and not to judge.

I'm an adoptive parent and there's a lot of ambivalence in my feelings about the birth parents (and in theirs about me, I expect). On the one hand, I know a fair bit particularly about the birth mother, and I feel huge sympathy for her and more than a dash of there-but-for-the-grace-of-god. Many women who lose their children have really never had a chance, they were failed from early childhood. On the other hand, there is of course some anger and horror at what my child in particular, and other children in general, have been through.

All those feelings would, I expect, be present to some degree.

Of course I bloody wouldn't! I like to be informed before I make judgements. I would be cautious though.

Just to point out the mum I knew, at least she tried, even half heartedly to look after her kids. The dad's on the other hand would have all walked away scott free getting sympathy from everyone about what a terrible mum their children had.

Sorry but yes I would judge that they were an unfit parent and thus their children were removed. It has to be pretty horrendous for them to take a kid away, especially three kids. I would hope that their life had improved since then but yes I would judge. Just being honest. I wouldn't let them babysit put it that way.

Oh yes fakename! The dad in the scenario walked away without a backwards glance and went on to have more kids with other women with no judgement from anyone while all the while badmouthing her to anyone who would listen. And yet she was pretty much ostracised for it. Very unfair in my opinion.

Don't get me wrong, there are some people who really should be judged for their actions or lack of. But there are others who shouldn't be, you really just don't know until you know the situation I guess.

I wouldn't judge, especially without knowing anything else about them or their situation. A friend of mine had one of her DC removed by SS due to an accident which had happened when DC was at childcare. Despite the childminder admitting the accident and several independent witnesses coming forward to verify the story, it still took nearly a year for all the investigations and meetings to take place before the child was allowed back home and the whole case against her dropped.

it really depends on the circumstances. I've had a friend put her DD into care as she was so off the rails it was the best thing for everyone. That's a long way from having a child removed for abuse etc.

My friend had her son taken away as she was an alcoholic - it was the right call and I didn't 'judge her '

To be honest, yes I would.

To be honest, yes I would.

I wouldn't judge without knowing the circumstances because while we can assume that SS usually make good decisions and are usually competent, professional etc, this is not always the case. Just like there is the odd teacher/doctor etc who can let down an entire profession, there are social workers like this.

I know someone who had her children removed and placed with their father, despite his proven history of domestic abuse (including police convictions). It is genuinely one of those cases that you can't believe and that without reading the many reports, email chains etc you would assume there is more to it, the mother must have been abusive/neglectful etc. The truth is she was by no means perfect but so far from being neglectful it's a joke.

She is fighting the case and raising a serious complaint against SS, but without legal support that is tough. And SS managers have totally covered for the main social worker involved. AND the court said following the removal of the children that SS had no legal authority to do that... but as the children had been moved they should stay with their dad til the final hearing when a final decision would be made. That gave SS more time to build a bullshit case that is full of holes, lies, lack of context etc. Regardless - a court said SS had acted without legal authority but no further action will be taken unless this woman makes that happen through the complaints system.

I happily let her mind my daughter. And while I used to be someone who always thought I would have no problem with SS, would never be afraid of them and would always co-operate (maybe that's my cosy middle class bubble), now I wouldn't let a social worker in my house without a court order or a police presence. And if it ever seemed that any sort of court order might be on the horizon I would be on a plane that day. Sounds dramatic, but when you have witnessed what I have you cease to have any faith at all in a system that I'm sure is largely effective and well-meaning but has gaping holes of incompetence, unprofessionalism and possibly even ill intent.

Thinking about it, I know another woman who was an alcoholic. Unfortunately by the time she sobered up and got clean her child had already (rightly) been taken away and adopted. I do feel sorry for her and in the end she made the right decision for her child to let him go and be happy. She has also chosen not to have any more kids. Yes, she has made a lot of mistakes in the past but she has turned her life around and I respect her a lot for that.

BastardBlood&Sands 💐 I'm so sorry. We went through a patch with my Godson where we thought we might be in the same position. Fortunately he calmed down a lot as he got through puberty. Scary times though & I really feel for you.

In general, do I judge? Hmm, yes, we all do. It's how we get through life, constant judgement about people, food, traffic, appropriate clothing etc judging is a necessary process. How you make a judgement & what you do with the conclusion is the important thing.