To really wish someone other than Tony Blair had asked us to rise up against brexit?

[DeviTheGaelet]

Can't see a thread about this. And yes I know there is a brexit topic but I wanted to post in AIBU to see what people thought. If you don't want to read about brexit and have no opinion click away now.
Tony Blair is urging remainers to rise up against brexit because we didn't know what we were voting for and it's going to be disastrous for the country.
I totally agree it's a disaster and I think it's shocking we can plunge into the unknown when only just over 50% of voters voted for it in an advisory referendum with a campaign based on lies. I've been desperate for a political party to get behind on a remain ticket.
But why the fuck does it have to be Tony Blair, the man who totally ignored strong public feeling on Iraq who says this? Where are the opposition in parliament?

I don't mean a second referendum but to use an analogy, just because the Labour party lost the last election, it doesn't mean that Labour voters have lost the right to discuss their fears of 5 years of a Tory government and likewise, Tory voters were quite within their rights to bemoan a Labour government when they were in power. In other words, yes the Leave vote won but it doesn't mean that it's no longer an issue for debate.

The thing is, it's not as if there are people of sufficient standing to be listened to queuing up to make these arguments.

I think what TB said is dead right. It would be wonderful if we had a functioning opposition who had the willingness and ability to make these arguments, but we don't- the current Labour party has acted shamefully in giving up its ability to hold the government to account (and this is nothing to do with ignoring the referendum but rather recognising that, if Brexit has to happen, its form should be shaped by Parliament not simply determined by Theresa May). It is mind-boggling that Labour voted against parliamentary scrutiny for the process, just complete madness.

Blair will never recover from the decisions he made re Iraq. However, he at least has the stature to attract attention (unlike eg Lib Dems), he is a good orator and understands the issues and the seriousness of the situation we are now in, plus he's unlikely to give a fuck about any of the dull "remoaner"/"liberal elite" jibes that will inevitably be flung his way by people who haven't grasped the extent of the catastrophe we could be facing.

Super - how long before someone claims this is fake news then.

of course we can do well if the deals are right. that's where all the energy and effort needs to be. making sure we grow jobs and keep our economy going.

I am much more worried by the implications of the greek debt crisis and the rise of the left in france and elsewhere in Europe but no one else seems bothered by these.

Corbyn doesn't speak up for remain because his core belief is anti - EU. I have heard him in the past speak at anti eu meetings when I worked in London and was involved in the Trade Union.

not sure how you can "grasp a catastrophe that we could be facing. "

the key word in this sentence is "could"

North Korea could blow us all up tomorrow. Or they could not.

Don't forget, a unlikely as it may seem now, a future generation might wish to have a referendum to reapply for EU membership, assuming it remains in its current form (or hopefully undergoes reform). It's not beyond the realms of possibility.

A lot can happen in 40+ years user. that's how long it took us to get the latest referendum.

debating this issue, continuing to debate it is like shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted. you can keep on shutting that door, talking about it doing it etc but the horse still aint gonna be there.

I heard Alastair Campbell and Nick Clegg speak (separately) in September, and both suggested that something of this kind might be on the cards. I actually wonder whether this is an opening hand which gives supporters who've not had the guts to be independently centrist a short-term figurehead they can align behind and then oust?
As a previous poster (pain perdu?) suggested, Blair has nothing to lose.

Mummymeister, that's exactly the problem- not willing nor able to make the arguments. I cannot get over how Corbyn is still where he is given the extent of his dishonesty, pretending to support Remain while actively seeking to undermine the campaign. He is a liar and an idiot.

Nothing wrong with using the word "could"- I believe that a hard Brexit would be a catastrophe. It may or may not happen.

User, I think that's v likely- majority of those under 50 voted Remain. We're also the people who will suffer the consequences.

MM, the whole point of what Blair is saying is that the horse hasn't actually bolted yet.

Flo - can you see no positives in this? really? just all doom, doom and more doom.

you are fully entitled to believe that a hard brexit will be a catastrophe.

there wont be another vote, not in my lifetime anyway. there just wont be.

do you honestly think that the EU would have us back in anyway? they wont even entertain keeping in Scotland.

I just honestly think that people have to move on from the doom and gloom stuff, I really, really do. its talking yourself into it.

As I think Tony Blair should be tried for murder over the Iraq war, he is the last person I would listen it regarding Brexit or anything else. Why does his opinion count for anything?

flo no evidence for that statistic.

'Could' is indeed right - no precedent for EU exit and we do not know if it will work out better.

Blair's belief that he is an influencer is quite laughable. And for an ex-pm to use the phrase 'rise up' is terrible. I can't find a written record of his speech but if the BBC are to be believed, some of his claims are elasticating the facts.

The horse has bolted. the public by a majority voted to move the bolt off of the door. its happened.

Bleurgh can say what he likes. no one is going to rally behind him. even the most ardent remainer can see that he is in this for one thing and one thing only - Mr A Blair.

he doesn't give one shiny shit about brexit. he does however see his lucrative job in the EU a la Neil Kinnock disappearing down the tracks.

its what old labour politicians do. they don't die, they go to the EU.

I agree OP. I'm not sure anyone can get the country to the point of a second referendum. As an ardent remainer I'm not even sure I'd want it. But if anyone should be championing it it definitely shouldn't have been TB

It's obvious what he is up to, come on. Junker has just announced that he won't be standing again in 2019. Join the dots fgs. Blair is using this as an interview for Junckers job, especially if he can screw Brexit up.

I will continue to believe that Brexit is a terrible idea. People telling me to shut up won't change that. The anti EU people moaned for 40 years about Europe, I am afraid you can't tell people what to believe. I have just said this on another thread but if the referendum had taken place in blairs time as leader of the opposition then we would have remained in Europe. Someone had to do Corbyns job for him. It's interesting to compare the hospitals, the homeless situation, the care for the disabled under Blairs time compared to now. But you know who cares about that.

I respect the way that you articulate your point but I disagree that debate on any issue should just be shut down (unless it's unlawful). It might seem unhelpful but I really do think that people have the right to continue discussing it. In fact, I think that it's very worrying, the idea that debate should just be shut down, otherwise surely we should not complain about the government until the next election. There may well be numerous more points for debate before we reach the point of physical brexit.

Not really, MM, no. Sounds like your mind is already made up on the matter but there's a good summary of the issues we're facing here www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2017/02/15/everything-you-need-to-know-about-article-50-in-five-minutes

I think the consequences of a hard Brexit will be that we'll inevitably end up a significantly poorer country, with greater wealth inequality, less international influence, greater social division. If I'm wrong- fantastic. But I don't think it's time to move on while there is even a scintilla of hope left.

The debate in of itself doesn't need to end. We are going to leave but the government needs to be held to account during the process to ensure that brexit works for everybody and not just a section of the populace.

I have no love for Blair but it's only an assumption that he seeks a job in the EU and not all ex Labour politicians are looking for EU jobs. That's a bit of a sweeping statement.

No, Blair doesn't do anything unless there a few million something in it for him

I voted In and cried when the result came through, however I think TB is a deluded, narsistic, cunt, so very much agree with you OP.

We had Trump yesterday with his press conference then Blair today, both men need to fuck the fuck off, they could go and live on a dessrt Island somewhere.

there wont be another vote, not in my lifetime anyway. there just wont be.

Another crystal ball. Let's wait and see. BTW you are the person being mist dogmatic on this thread, I don't know why some brexiteers are so scared of any discussion.

I wish someone in Labour would grow some and defect. For a while after the referendum there was noise about a progressive alliance but it seems to have come to nothing.

I might be being dogmatic devi but the abuse I have had about voting out is unbelievable. like we are all stupid idiots who don't understand the issues and if we had have understood the issues we wouldn't have voted out.

this constant wailing of "people just didn't understand what they voted for" Yes, actually they did.

Its not about having a crystal ball. its about understanding the role and importance of democracy. ensuring democracy is far more important than this one vote.

It's not all about the two main parties btw.

www.libdems.org.uk/europe