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Original poster

To really wish someone other than Tony Blair had asked us to rise up against brexit?

323 replies

DeviTheGaelet · 17/02/2017 14:57

Can't see a thread about this. And yes I know there is a brexit topic but I wanted to post in AIBU to see what people thought. If you don't want to read about brexit and have no opinion click away now.
Tony Blair is urging remainers to rise up against brexit because we didn't know what we were voting for and it's going to be disastrous for the country.
I totally agree it's a disaster and I think it's shocking we can plunge into the unknown when only just over 50% of voters voted for it in an advisory referendum with a campaign based on lies. I've been desperate for a political party to get behind on a remain ticket.
But why the fuck does it have to be Tony Blair, the man who totally ignored strong public feeling on Iraq who says this? Where are the opposition in parliament?

OP posts:
Original poster
DeviTheGaelet · 19/02/2017 17:08

The rise of the far right is hugely concerning but the EU laws hamstring them a bit in how far they go in their ambition. Free movement laws stop people being blocked/deported on the basis of race or religion. I think Wilders/Le Pen etc would be a much scarier proposition out of the EU personally

OP posts:
Brokenbiscuit · 19/02/2017 17:08

It's negative because we think it's a really bad idea, mummy. What do you expect?

If the referendum had gone the other way, would you have suddenly become positive and enthusiastic about the EU? I doubt it.

Why should we all play along and pretend it's going to be wonderful, when we think it's going to be a disaster? What would that actually achieve?

You got the result that you wanted, I didn't. That's democracy. I can say that I think you (and the rest of the country) made the wrong decision, and you can disagree. That's also democracy. We don't have to pretend that it's all fine - it isn't.

PageStillNotFound404 · 19/02/2017 17:12

again its just all so negative all the time. things change. we have to change to accommodate them. starting planning for that and not sitting in the corner wringing your hands over it.

Yes, I feel negative over Brexit. I didn't want it, on a national or a personal level, it almost certainly will have a negative effect on my life due to my personal circumstances and I'm not sure why me and others who feel like me are now being expected to do the work to roll this turd in glitter. I'm not going to actively sabotage anything that I can see to be in our interests just so I can say I was right all along, but so far I'm genuinely not seeing anything that will be. So here's an idea - let's see some practical, concrete plans for and some quantifiable benefits of Brexit that are so unarguable that anyone with half a brain would be persuaded by them, and THEN you get to tell us to "shut up and get on with it" if we still complain.

mummymeister · 19/02/2017 17:13

Whether or not I am thinking positively is neither here nor there to the success of brexit

Devi if you honestly believe that, that what you do or how you act or the decisions that you take make no difference to brexit then I am astounded. there isn't anything else I can add.

I am not cross because people don't hold the same opinions as I do. I am an anti monarchist and have spent years campaigning to get rid of them. they are still here. they are probably going to still be here when I am not. It doesn't stop me doing it and I certainly haven't given up on hoping. I do recognise that probably the majority of the country don't agree with me and that's fine.

What does make me cross is people who at the slightest hint that something/anything is going to change throw up their hands and wail "doomed, doomed we are all doomed" rather than using that energy to work out what they as an individual can do to make a difference.

Brokenbiscuit · 19/02/2017 17:16

Maybe you're right, mommy. Maybe I should be trying harder to make a difference. Maybe I should be out campaigning for a second referendum, rather than just accepting the result.

babybarrister · 19/02/2017 17:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mummymeister · 19/02/2017 17:20

If the referendum had gone the other way, I would be doing what I have spent the last 20+ years doing. getting as much money out of Europe through grant aided schemes as possible and writing letters and attending meetings and rallies when things are brought in by the eu that I don't agree with.

as for stopping a world war, I don't know the exact stats but certainly the former Yugoslavia, Iran, Iraq and many other places in the world might not feel its been that great.

technological changes mean that there was never going to be a war like the 2nd world war again anyway. the risk assessed was always from conflicts within a state or by one rogue state on another. I haven't seen this stop since the EU started.

mummymeister · 19/02/2017 17:22

broken - if that is what you think has the greatest chance of success in changing the kind of brexit to the one that you want, then go for it.

TheNaze73 · 19/02/2017 17:25

We should have put the brakes on the Iraq war. The bloke is & will always be a self serving cunt

PageStillNotFound404 · 19/02/2017 17:25

FFS it's not about being frightened of change. It's about being absolutely convinced that a subject as complex as this was never a suitable subject for a referendum in the first place and that the result is highly unlikely to be in our interests.

TheFullMrexit · 19/02/2017 17:29

Re the EU putting the brakes on people like Hitler

I think the EU is directly fueling the creation of people like Hitler on one side and Stalin on the other - we are seeing extreme right and more worryingly extreme left on the other.

mummymeister · 19/02/2017 17:29

Page - do you think then that for any complex subject people are just a bit too stupid to understand the issues and vote on them?

is this your view on all referendums?

Should we just set up a committee of the great and the good - who also happen to be super, super intelligent - to take all of our decisions for us. because lets be honest, everything could be seen as complex.

don't they call that North Korea?

TheFullMrexit · 19/02/2017 17:31

It's about being absolutely convinced that a subject as complex as this was never a suitable subject for a referendum in the first place and that the result is highly unlikely to be in our interests

How did it get so complicated? Confused

Its OK is it - to foist a political and social union across 28 countries and not ask the population if they want it?

It should never ever have been allowed to get to this stage, to get this complicated. Angry thank goodness we are extricating ourselves from this awful mess now....

mummymeister · 19/02/2017 17:35

In a democracy, every subject is a suitable subject for a referendum.

government for the people, by the people.

not government for the people by the elite.

TheFullMrexit · 19/02/2017 17:42

Free movement laws stop people being blocked/deported on the basis of race or religion
Go and tell that the migrants being hunted down by far right boarder patrols with snarling dogs in Hungary! Honestly!

TheFullMrexit · 19/02/2017 17:44

If the referendum had gone the other way, would you have suddenly become positive and enthusiastic about the EU? I doubt it

Yes Absolutely because we were finally given a vote on the EU which we had never ever been given on the behemoth state it is now. Personally I wold have accepted that and yes I can see some good things of being in the EU on shallow personal basis. So I would have been upset, but made the best of it.

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 19/02/2017 17:49

mummy

what you do or how you act or the decisions that you take make no difference to brexit

What decisions do i need to make or what do i need to do to make brexit a success?

TheFullMrexit · 19/02/2017 17:52

babybarrister Sun 19-Feb-17 17:18:19

I missed your post before I posted but I agree with every word. It has been shoved under the carpet. And Yes civil liberties in some of those countries have taken a very bad turn indeed.

Yamadori · 19/02/2017 18:23

To really wish someone other than Tony Blair had asked us to rise up against Brexit

Your wish has been granted - Mandelson has stepped up.

Incidentally, this morning I was talking to someone who voted remain. He said that if we were to have another referendum he would now vote leave.

mummymeister · 19/02/2017 18:28

Rufus - I have no idea what industry you work in, if you work. I have no idea if you have children I know nothing about you.

I know what I can and will be doing to make it a success based on the work I do, the groups I belong to, how much time I can devote to this etc.

I have a trade association. I will be lobbying them to make sure my trade isn't disadvantaged. I will be e mailing the relevant government dept and my MP to make sure my MP votes the way on issues that I think would be of biggest benefit to my community. I will be using facebook to encourage others in my trade association and community to do the same.

get the idea now?

PageStillNotFound404 · 19/02/2017 18:30

I no more want North Korea than I believe you'd do your own brain surgery because hey, how complex can it be?

I don't believe everyone's opinion is equally valid on every issue, no. I think when you're considering a course of action that will have huge ramifications socially, politically and economically on both a domestic and a global scale not just for a few years but for decades, possibly lifetimes, then the people making the decision to do that and weighing up the pros and cons bloody well better be experts in their field. At the very least, we should have been voting on an actual plan! A plan that had been through a number of revisions, was constitutionally legal and included contingencies to mitigate against adverse effects. Not a bus, a poster purporting to be of done immigrants and "Project Fear". Nor as the result of a cynical exercise to win Tory voters back from UKIP in a domestic election.

PageStillNotFound404 · 19/02/2017 18:32

some immigrants

TheElementsSong · 19/02/2017 18:33

I will be lobbying them to make sure my trade isn't disadvantaged.

Why on earth would your trade be disadvantaged? Why would there be any disadvantage to Brexit? I think that sounds like negative thinking Grin.

creampinkrose · 19/02/2017 18:39

It would genuinely be interesting to see the results of a second referendum.

Brokenbiscuit · 19/02/2017 18:39

I don't know why the options are presented as North Korean style dictatorship or government by referenda.

I thought we lived in a parliamentary democracy, whereby we elect representatives to make decisions on our behalf. Not everyone has the time, the inclination or (dare I say it?) the intelligence to read up on complex issues in order to be able to make informed decisions, so we end up with referenda being won and lost on soundbites/slogans on buses.

Our parliamentary representatives are democratically elected by the people. I want them to research the issues and make decisions on our behalf. I won't necessarily agree with everything they decide, but then I can still have my say at the ballot box the next time round.

Otherwise, why not get rid of the MPs altogether and decide everything by opinion poll?

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