To really wish someone other than Tony Blair had asked us to rise up against brexit?

[DeviTheGaelet]

Can't see a thread about this. And yes I know there is a brexit topic but I wanted to post in AIBU to see what people thought. If you don't want to read about brexit and have no opinion click away now.
Tony Blair is urging remainers to rise up against brexit because we didn't know what we were voting for and it's going to be disastrous for the country.
I totally agree it's a disaster and I think it's shocking we can plunge into the unknown when only just over 50% of voters voted for it in an advisory referendum with a campaign based on lies. I've been desperate for a political party to get behind on a remain ticket.
But why the fuck does it have to be Tony Blair, the man who totally ignored strong public feeling on Iraq who says this? Where are the opposition in parliament?

Quite piglet

Scary I agree with you. I am British; I don't feel remotely European, that's the least way I'd describe myself.

European citizenship? I agree that you can feel both british and European but citizenship? So, do you think any other EU country is going to "honour" this citizenship that you feel that you had by letting you go and live there, work there etc. it was a smokescreen, a soundbite. we were never citizens of Europe any more or less than we were/are citizens of the world.

I am not aligning myself with Trump. there are lots of other countries out there that we can and will be doing business with - the Commonwealth for a start.

why is this "we all have to pull together shit" nonsense? you were quite happy to be part of the EU where we were all expected to pull together?

The UK paid in more than it got out because it "pulled together" with the PIGS group when they got into trouble. that was pulling together surely and you didn't object to that? in fact you welcomed it didn't you as "a citizen of Europe"?

What choice is there really other than to get on with it and all pull together? sit back do nothing trade with nobody and cry in a corner about how you lost the vote and it wasn't fair?

people need to stop clinging on to this hope that we will vote again. we wont. and EU have made it very, very clear once we are out we are out. no going back.

I seriously worry about the individual resilience of people if they cannot cope with major change and work out how best to make it work for them.

The difference is that I have never been asked if I wanted to be an EU 'citizen' before the referendum. It was something imposed on me. I also fail to see how one can be a 'citizen' of a nebulous political construct that isn't a state in its own right (but that is where it is heading, and part of why I wanted to leave).

Sorry, got involved in reading a pdf about the EU and the democratic deficit, written by someone at Princeton, hence the late post.

a link to that would be interesting scaryteacher?

there seems to be this myth starting about how perfect and fabulous the EU was and how we are leaving the best club in the world.

Citizen of Europe was just a sound bite, it meant nothing. people think it did because we have the ring of stars on our passports.

European citizenship? I agree that you can feel both british and European but citizenship? So, do you think any other EU country is going to "honour" this citizenship that you feel that you had by letting you go and live there, work there etc

I have a European passport, I vote in European Parliament elections and at present, I still have the right to live and work in any EU country. That right is soon to be removed, but it is not the EU that will be removing it. So yes, I feel that the UK government will be stripping me of the rights that I have had since childhood. Without my consent.

How to can you someone be a citizen of a nebulous political construct that isn't a state in its own right.

^^ THIS with jingle bells on. Interesting propaganda tool though. making people feel they belong to this thing....

Mummy I totally agree with your individual resilience comment. My family lives all over the world. We, my family members have been turned down to live in some places, have struggled with visas, entry requirements, been spilt up etc etc etc. It's been a part of my life growing up, so and so is back in x due to xyz. All this demanding the right to live in another host country sounds very entitled to me. The countries I would like to live in, would scrutinise me and my family too see if we are what they need, will we add to society? I can't imagine it being any other way. Even travelling to Oz years ago I had to have a certain amount of cash in the bank!! Just to travel there My family is made up of people from so many different nationality too including my own dh. No one has this sense of entitlement. It can't get my head round it.

Brokenbiscuit - you don't have a European passport. go and have a look at it and look up on line who would come and rescue you in an emergency and whose embassy you would go to.

Who is your MEP? If its so important to you I assume you know without having to go and look it up.

Again, go and have a look at what your rights are regarding just pitching up in france of Germany with no job.

the rights to do this were conferred on the country via its government. not on you as an individual.

You were never a citizen. you couldn't be because its not a nation.

Definition of Citizen :

a legally recognized subject or national of a state or commonwealth, either native or naturalized

The EU is neither a state or a commonwealth is it?

making people feel they belong to this thing....

I did belong to this thing. Until you decided to vote me out...

This is the Emperor's New Clothes. Blair has pointed out that the Emperor is naked (i.e. that Brexit always leaves Britain worse off) and everyone says we hate the messenger. The crucial thing is whatever you think of Blair his message is spot on. How can we get a proper check on the Brexit deal once we know what it is?

mummy now Blair, mandelson, and Campbell are back in spot light, the original myth creators, we can only expect a whole new truth being created, flooding the air waves.

But as scary said what thing was it? I never voted to join it. I was never consulted.

Oh and I'm proud to be British. The British I am cooperates with our EU neighbours and is stronger for it.

I really don't think anyone (or not many), will listen to Blair, Mandy and Campbell. When it comes to the emperor's new clothes, I think its Blair who will be found to wearing nothing ( not that I want to actually visualize that).

Mummy, surely you know that I don't just have one MEP. That isn't how it works. Or aren't you familiar with the system?

And yes, I know that I would call on the British consulate if I was in trouble overseas. I get that. I am not denying my British citizenship and nationality. My passport is issued by the UK authorities, but yes, it also represents my citizenship of the EU.

We can argue about semantics, but our membership of the EU does confer rights that I value. Yes, I understand that those rights aren't conferred on me as an individual - how could I not be aware of that in the absurd situation in which we now find ourselves, whereby my beloved compatriots have voted to deny me these rights?

If you don't regard yourself as an EU citizen, that's fine, but it isn't how I see it.

Back in the 90s we weren't asked if we wanted to become EU "citizens". This newly-contrived identity was forced on us disingenuously and without our consent. And anyone wishing to renounce EU "citizenship" may not do so without also having to renounce their British citizenship at the same time.

There was no referendum about the Maastricht and Lisbon treaties in the 90s. The first referendum in the 70s was about the common market (belatedly, after we'd already been signed up).

Why should a common market need its own "citizenship", flag, parliament, supreme court, anthem, passport, motto, constitution, currency, foreign service, civil service, single legal identity, laws (replacing those of nation states, irrevocably), policies, presidents, free movement of persons (rather than just tariff-free goods), intelligence service, police service, diplomatic service, and plans approved last Thursday for its own tax ministry, finance minister and EU army?

Of course the EU threatens Britishness, and indeed the existence of all its member states as anything more than names of regions of a federal bloc. The EU's aim has always been "ever closer union", as it says in its founding Treaty (the Treaty of Rome). The EU has clearly been constructing all aspects of a superstate, stealthily over the decades, so there will be virtually nothing left to change in order to become a federal superstate overnight. And of course they hope no-one will really notice or care what has happened, and it will be too late.

So, on the one hand people are insisting that there is no such thing as EU citizenship, and on the other hand, they're pissed off that they never consented to it and can't renounce it.

Right.

I am not pissed off because I never consented to citizenship. I cant renounce it because I never had it!

What was voted for in the 70's was what I would have signed up to. a trading community with tariff free trade.

what I did not sign up to and did not want is all the things itinerary lists in their post above.

Of course I understand that there is more than one rep in the EU parliament in my area. I have never met them or spoken to them. unlike my MP who I do know and have spoken to and who has helped me in the past.

The big mistake that the British people as a whole made was not insisting on referendums earlier for both Maastricht and Lisbon. The 90's is when the rot set in imo.

Itinerary don't know how anyone could read your post and fail to understand why people are concerned about the eu. Surely the most ardent remainer with hand firmly in pocket of eu can admit what's happened without our consent is sinister.

To be fair Thefullmrexit,, I don't want to fall into the trap that the remoaners are in - saying that anyone that cant see what the situation is must be stupid, ignorant etc etc.

everyone sees different things in different ways. some people like the idea of everything being done and organised for them, others don't.

For me, the biggest issue is resilience. its about being able to effect change in your life due to changing circumstances. this is probably a sweeping generalisation but I do wonder if this lack of resilience, this not being able to trust that there is another option that you can take, is a generational thing.

I think Tony Bleurgh is trying to tap into that. this is why he is trying to start this "rise up" movement or whatever he calls it. its what he did over the WMD. filled some people with the fear that we were going to be bombed in a hour. again he is tapping into the fears of the non resilient.

mummymeister I'll see if I can find it, as I was reading on my Kindle, and I'm now on the desktop. It may have been a dissertation, but it made some interesting points, especially about how it was harder for countries like the UK and France to adapt to 'Europeanization' (US spelling) as we normally have non coalition governments, and are not used to dealing with the form of coalition government that is common in EU member states, and therefore find the form of EU governance opaque.

For me, the biggest issue is resilience. its about being able to effect change in your life due to changing circumstances. this is probably a sweeping generalisation but I do wonder if this lack of resilience, this not being able to trust that there is another option that you can take, is a generational thing.

It isn't about resilience. At least, not on a personal level. I'm annoyed about Brexit for my own sake, but I'm not actually worried for my future. I'm well qualified, have transferable skills and plenty of savings in the bank. I also have an escape route if I really need one, as we have the right to live and work in a couple of countries outside the EU. We will be ok, whatever this shitstorm brings.

However, I do worry that our country is not resilient, and that, collectively, we do not have the skills or the reserves to weather this storm. I think the future is going to be very, very tough for a lot of people. And yes, that worries me.

Yeah to be fair i was very pissed off with the flags and licence plates having the eu stars on it

Very pleased not to have the euro

It is ridiculous to talk about resilience. I could suggest that those who support Brexit aren't resilient as they don't seem able to cope with disagreement and want everyone to shut up and move on. I don't vote conservative. When Labour lost power to the Tories I did not magically agree with the Tory policies, but that wasn't because of my fear of change. So now anyone who doesn't agree with a policy change is not resilient?