Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To want to discuss the BBC drama on Shannon Matthews

147 replies

EveOnline2016 · 15/02/2017 21:43

I have watched both parts.

I either need to be told IABU or not.

I used to be full of hatred for Karen, but since the program and googling as much as possible from Julie, I have changed my mind.

I know this is an emotional subject, so please don't start with the lynch mob.

But could Karen Matthews be a DV victim.

OP posts:
Maudlinmaud · 16/02/2017 14:04

KM was not a victim, well not in the case regarding her children. She was manipulative but lacked the ability to successfully manipulate those around her. If she had things could have been a lot, lot worse for her children.

Laralouie · 16/02/2017 14:07

I haven't actually watched the he programme although I plan to. To me it's not about having sympathy, it's about having some understanding, of how she came to do such a thing.

It's the old nature or nurture and you have to look at all of the circumstances right back from Karen Matthews own childhood and including her mental capacity.

My sympathy would only lie with Shannon. One way to look at it is to think about how the children of people like Karen Matthews might grow up to be.

I can't abide Katie Hopkins but she wrote an article about Karen Matthews and the McCanns, what the McCanns did was completely neglectful but they haven't been demonised in the same way.

Elendon · 16/02/2017 14:08

Fine. She was an evil bitch and deserved all she got.

Hope you all who are criticising her have the perfect home, perfect husband, perfect children and the perfect life.

Elendon · 16/02/2017 14:10

Quite frankly I didn't believe a word the Uncle said. He came across as a liar.

ApplePaltrow21 · 16/02/2017 14:13

Fine. She was an evil bitch and deserved all she got.

Hope you all who are criticising her have the perfect home, perfect husband, perfect children and the perfect life.

Are you fucking serious? That girl was tied to a bed for 3 weeks and god knows what was done to her. That family beat and starved those children in full view of their precious community.

The day I become a shitty enough parent that I have to start justifying the abuse of children, I'll hand them in to social services myself. Compared to those feral animals, I'm the Queen of fucking Sheba.

MrsJayy · 16/02/2017 14:13

This isn't about us being perfect her not yes jail time is what they deserved. What do you think should have happened Elendon ? You seem quite angry about it

MrsJayy · 16/02/2017 14:17

Maybe Karen should have had a few there theres or something oh wait she got those and still she abused and neglected her children battered them drugged 1 had them removed from her care starved them had all sorts of men in and out of her house and her childrens lives.

HaveCourageAndBeKind · 16/02/2017 14:23

I think it's fair to say this wasn't really a drama about what happened to Shannon. It wasn't really a drama about Karen and the community.
It was, however, the Julie show. So, naturally, the audience will be led to align with her view of Karen.

brasty · 16/02/2017 14:25

I liked this series. Karen deserved prison time, she was abusive to the kids. But the drama shows that just painting someone as an evil person, is never accurate. Karen was obviously abused by various men. Karen also got involved with a very passive younger man with learning difficulties, Craig who is a vulnerable adult. Craig also watched children being abused.

People can be abused and be abusers. Not everyone falls into clear categories of victim or perpetrator.

augustbody · 16/02/2017 14:32

Hope you all who are criticising her have the perfect home, perfect husband, perfect children and the perfect life.

What the fuck are you talking about? This isn't letting the kids have too much time on the iPad, or giving them chicken nuggets and chips for dinner 3 nights in a row. This is long term abuse of several children. Who needs a 'perfect life' to criticise Karen Matthews?!

Sheesh!

ElderDruid · 16/02/2017 14:34

I personally feel it's the way another couple were treated that made someone think this could be a big cash cow. Some idiot sooner or later would have tried their luck, hoping the same would be in it for them.

That does NOT excuse what happened, that does NOT excuse the way any of her children were treated. The sad thing is if we briefly focus on the latter, how many more families are there with multiple children being neglected in sink estates, destined for a future which is similar to their parents? It's not guaranteed, but they need positive role models. Mum and whoever on benefits popping out babies like no tomorrow isn't a positive way forward.

I say the second paragraph but I don't have any answers unfortunately as to how you'd solve such a problem. I don't think it's a concern for the Government either.

There was so much going on in that household, I'm sure it's mirrored in many more. You could watch Shameless and have a giggle, but that is reality for some children. They are the innocents when said and done.

I hope Karen has been sterilised and truly is repentant and wanting to do positive with her life going forwards. Some may say I'm horrid for hoping she's been steralised, in my view she had 7 chances and blew them. She should not be afforded any more. I hope the children have been afforded the most loving families, so they know how parents are meant to act.

WannaBe · 16/02/2017 14:38

"Hope you all who are criticising her have the perfect home, perfect husband, perfect children and the perfect life." well, I know what I don't have. I don't have a criminal record having spent time in prison for abusing my child, faking her abduction while she lay drugged under the bed of an uncle while I paraded myself on television crying fake tears so people would give money.

I don't routinely drug and batter my children, and I don't have seven children who have all been removed into care and given new identities to protect them from what I did to them.

So yeah, compared to all of that I have a pretty perfect life thank you very much. Hmm.

SnoozyCunt · 16/02/2017 14:40

She's a case in point for bringing back the death penalty.

ElderDruid · 16/02/2017 14:41

I think another thing, rather than posting on MN something horrid happened today to a child, do something about it. Get a photo, video, contact social services, SureStart, anyone you can think of.

Don't stand by and watch neglect taking place and think you've done your bit by just moaning about it to others.

Rugbyplayersarehot · 16/02/2017 14:46

Nope there's only one victim here and that's Shannon and her siblings.

Would we be a sympathetic to s man who abused his kids. Colluded in an abduction and tied a child to a bed drugged?

There are bastards and vile abusers out there and some are mothers. They are just as bad.

birdsdestiny · 16/02/2017 14:59

In a sense I am not sure it matters how we describe Karen, born evil or unable to parent due to a cycle of abuse, poverty etc. It is the response to Karen's situation that is important. She was unable to look after those children, and in a sense the reason why is irrelevant in this case. To break the cycle children need to be taken into care. The demonizing of social workers in the 80 s led to a culture of trying to maintain children within the family home. I am unsure whether this was the right decision.

x2boys · 16/02/2017 15:01

i have a far from perfect life, husband ,kids etc etc and yeah i make mistakes all the time but i wouldnt willingly neglect my boys not feed them ,wash them etc i think too much emphasis is put on KM,s IQ whilst it was low it didnt mean she didnt know what she was doing was wrong her IQ would have meant she would have struggled at school ma\ybe struggled reading and writing ,basic maths etc but pleanty of people do and mange to not abuse their children

Laralouie · 16/02/2017 15:05

Birdsdestiny sadly being taken into care doesn't always break the cycle.

Going into care usually isn't happy ever after.

Laralouie · 16/02/2017 15:09

I do agree that whether she was evil is irrelevant. But trying to maintain children in the family home wasn't down to demonising social workers.

The care system fails children more than their own parents.

We all feel sorry for Shannon, but how many would welcome her into their home and give her a living stable life? How many people would or even could take on a child that age with all of their difficulties and problems?

ElderDruid · 16/02/2017 15:12

I do know children in care get a lot of MDT support. So they try hard to break the cycle.

brasty · 16/02/2017 15:13

Exactly. It may be different for Shannon, I hope so, but most children who are a bit older and taken into care, simply go through a series of foster placements.

MrsJayy · 16/02/2017 15:25

I also think children ever recover fully from trauma so with the best care isn't going to take what happened to shannon and her siblings away

birdsdestiny · 16/02/2017 16:01

I have no illusions about the care system. Being in a care home where staff are paid to care for you, no matter how good those staff are,and I have seen some excellent ones, is no substitute for someone loving you. But care fails children more than families? I dont know. That is the narrative now, I know the prison stats for children in care but how do they compare to children remaining in families like Shannons. I am not really argueing one way or the other just asking the question. Shannon would have been safe, warm and fed during her childhood if she had been in care. Keeping children in their families did nothing for Karen did it?

ShoutOutToMyEx · 16/02/2017 16:05

birds I often wonder that. I think outcomes on the whole are worse for children whose families had some intervention but were not removed, than those who were taken into care.

We got sent a report at my old work but of course I've gone and forgotten who it was by. There wasn't much in it though I don't think.

EatsShitAndLeaves · 16/02/2017 16:27

Personally I thought the program glossed over the very significant fact that the abduction was the culmination of YEARS of abuse KM's children had suffered.

This cannot have gone unnoticed by her "friends".

The portray of them as kind people being duped by KM just didn't ring true to me. Their friendship and support surely enabled her for years?

I might be reading too much into this but at the end the female police officer said they didn't think that any of the 3 were clever enough to have come up with this and that there was someone else who masterminded the abduction.

I wondered if the implication was that it was someone else close to KM?

Overall I felt no sympathy for KM whatsoever.

I just felt glad her children are now safely free of her.