To want to discuss the BBC drama on Shannon Matthews

[EveOnline2016]

I have watched both parts.

I either need to be told IABU or not.

I used to be full of hatred for Karen, but since the program and googling as much as possible from Julie, I have changed my mind.

I know this is an emotional subject, so please don't start with the lynch mob.

But could Karen Matthews be a DV victim.

Karen Mathewswas damaged however that does not take away from the fact that she was an awful parent who abused and neglected her Children she had no boundries or respect for any of those kids.

Christ knows what thatcher has to do with anything

I don't honestly know how you break this cycle of damaged adults who have been poorly parented going on to be poor parents and damaging to their own children. It's thoroughly depressing. And often seems a bit hopeless tbh.

I know tea I don't know what the solution is it just goes on and on

The things some people do is normal for them they do what they do to get by it is utterly depressing.

Karen I don't feel is a bad person

Do good people beat their children?

Leon Rose shannobs dad went to the high court so Shannons SS records could not be published shannon had been abused all her life as well as her siblings the only sympathy i have is for those children they were the victims.

The things some people do is normal for them they do what they do to get by it is utterly depressing.

Agreed MrsJayy

I thought the two "friends" were interesting counter points.

Julie was lovely strong supportive etc BUT I thought there was a hint that this kind of attitude enabled people like KM (chaotic lives/shit parents). The opening scene is a parenting course that Julie pretty much scoffs her way through and then reassures KM afterwards that of course she's a great mum, doesn't need a course etc etc..

On the other hand Natalie seemed uneasy with KM from the beginning then withdrew her support because she believed whatever was happening was wrong BUT she missed out on the community bonding stuff. Her focus seemed to be looking after the children.

I think this is a very clever writer and there is probably a lot to delve into.

Yy you are a good mum is thrown about these parenting courses tick boxes and on they go back to doing the usual. I said on the other thread Karen Mathews could have gone on a million parenting courses and she would still be a terrible parent most of the time these courses are enforced so they go on them to get SS off their back for a while.

In the programme KM said they had eaten round the breakfast table the morning before she vanished it was the kind of nonsense she would have learned on her course.

You see that on here though as well. Terrible parenting excused all the time by some.

We don't know that Karen Matthews' partner molested Shannon, do we?

If you google the three people at the centre of the crime Karen, Craig and Paul you will see that Craig and Paul were prior to this programme pretty much unknown and able to live their lives normally whereas Karen is vilified. Whether vilification is justified or not, it's typical that only the woman is the focus despite one man being a paedophile and the other holding the child prisoner.

It was never said he did no however i read that KM had sexual activity in front of Shannon I dont know if that is true or not

Good point ColdFeet

I think this programme exposes some major societal concerns. People who are incapable of parenting are capable of having multiple children and often lack the insight to stop doing so. As a society we are uncomfortable with taking those children away, preventing pregnancy or judging, however those same children suffer and then grow up unable to parent....cycle repeats.

Craig was beaten up in the street last week allegedly he still lives in the area. The reason KM is being spoken about so harshly is she as a parent failed her Children she did not protect them she let these men into her kids homes and lives however the fathers were no better imo

Good point ColdFeet.

IMO I feel sympathy for Karen . I don't know the story inside out, but from what I have seen, it appears she had some kind of learning difficulties. She seems to have little mature insight

In the 1980s, there was a huge reaction against kids being taken into care too easily, and too often. I think the pendulum has swung too far the other way, and for the past 15 years or so, kids who should be taken out of appalling home circumstances - aren't.

I read that previous neighbours tried and failed to get SS involved. Reading their account it could be word for word our's. We also live next door to a 'problem' family. And, like Karen's former neighbours, tried for a long time to get authorities to get the kids (and pets) to a place of safety... DV from both the male and female parent. Really inappropriate, highly sexual stuff being screamed ful volume right in front of the kids. And the infamous incident I've written about a few times on here - the dog being kicked in the stomach whilst the 4 year old female child watched impassively.

Sadly I've come to the conclusion that the authorities - police and SS in particular - actually 'make a living' from this cycle of abuse so they have no real interest in breaking it. Our ocuncil deliberately re-housed these people despite them being kicked out of social housing in a neighbouring area for ASB. The council also aren't accountable for putting them there - I guess dumping 'troubled' people in a remote area is in their interests as the rent will be paid by the DSS. In other words - people like this represent an income stream to people who should be intervening.

I hope wherever Shannon is she is now safe, loved and cared for. At least this child - and hopefully her siblings - made it out of those circumstances and have a chance of breaking the cycle.

I think Karen is a sad, pathetic and tragic character. She is a victim of her upbringing and her ignorance.
She was not capable of being a good mother and it is good that her children have been removed.
There is no excuse for the way she treated her children but no, I don't think she is evil. The prison sentence was deserved.
I hope now she can get her life on track and get the help she needs but more, I hope her children are now happy and thriving.

Karen was clearly vulnerable. But that is no excuse. Many people are abused/vulnerable and don't put their own kids in harms' way. I can see my neighbours are clearly alcoholics/mentally ill but that simply doesn't excuse harming kids and animals. With mental health services underfunded, we will only see more of this. 'I came to the cynical conclusion that 'Care in the community' means "Neighbours pick up the phone when they see something unthinkable". It is far cheaper than, you know, actually treating people and getting their kids out of harm's way.

I saw on news online, that she was recently photographed with a christian group who are supporting her. Presumably she had the jailhouse conversion. So yet again; a vulnerable person has attracted people who may not have her best interests at heart.

Joffrey i was nodding along with you sadly I agree with everything you said,

I think the show is a perfect example of why children are so badly abused and neglected. Because people cannot accept that women are capable of being bad parents. So even this show has to soften the details to make us sympathize with Karen Matthews.

I also watched the show then looked up the case details.

The show portrays Karen Matthews as a victim of the Donovan guy and her pedophile boyfriend. As someone who is basically unable to take care of herself and is essentially a nice person who is just a bit neglectful. The kids love her are basically happy.They portray it as a poor but basically happy home with a woman who has made a few mistakes and one of them is allowing a kidnapping scheme to get a bit out of hand.

This is a flat out LIE. They don't point out the fact that the home was extremely abusive and neglectful. That Shannon Matthews explicitly asked NOT to see her mom once she was found! What kind of mother is so awful that a child after being kidnapped and tied to a bed for 3 weeks still doesn't want to see her? The kids often went without food and wrote notes to each other because making noise meant getting another beating. This very passive woman in this show who can barely raise her head either colluded in or actually beat and drugged the kids repeatedly.

They don't talk about how Craig, the pedophile stepdad, was 17 and she was in her late 20s when he moved in. She was the older adult in that relationship.

They also stay far away from the truth of the kidnapping. They act as if she just lived with Craig's uncle - the Donovan guy - instead of being tied to a bed for 3 weeks. They also don't point out that this man had his own kids taken away from him because he forced them to watch him have sex with a prostitute. They also hide the fact that Craig's IQ was much much lower than Karens and there was no way he could have manipulated her.

Essentially, they rework the story to make her the victim because that's the only way they can conceive of a mother being so awful. It's ridiculous.

They also do it to make the community look better. The reality is that the neighbor, Julie (the "hero") and everyone else would have seen the kids being beaten, seen the bruises, seen them go hungry, seen the older one run away and put into care and they all turned their back on those kids. None of them called social services, none of them stepped in to help. The community abandoned those kids - like I'm sure they abandoned their own kids - and then patted themselves on the back that they could have a piss up at a vigil and get on the news.

Julie is not a hero. They are the opposite of heroes. She's a monster. They are all monsters. I actually agree with David Cameron that that estate is everything that is wrong with Britain. He called it a community whose pillars are "crime, unemployment and addiction." He left out child neglect and abuse.