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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To want to discuss the BBC drama on Shannon Matthews

147 replies

EveOnline2016 · 15/02/2017 21:43

I have watched both parts.

I either need to be told IABU or not.

I used to be full of hatred for Karen, but since the program and googling as much as possible from Julie, I have changed my mind.

I know this is an emotional subject, so please don't start with the lynch mob.

But could Karen Matthews be a DV victim.

OP posts:

Gottagetmoving · 16/02/2017 12:26

I actually agree with David Cameron that that estate is everything that is wrong with Britain

It is not the Estate that is wrong.. They reflect the effects of lack of education and of poverty...which is usually caused by government policies.

shineon · 16/02/2017 12:30

Excellent drama I was stuck into it. Im not sure what I think about her but she definitely has some mental issues at the very least. I would have likef to know a bit more about Craig's involvement as it didn't really go into him much. He was never convicted of being involved in the abduction. And the child porn he was convicted for was unrelated. He had to k ow something. Do people think he was abusing Shsnnon? And I dont understand her explanation that she asked the uncle to take Shannon so shr could bring all the kids there & leave Craig, why report her missing and why would the uncle come forward and say I have Shannon on her motheres instruction, shes not missing at all. So many questions ! I wonder how Shannon is doing now, I read she is 18 now, so she could make contact with her fsmily if she wanted to. I doubt she will though.

Awwlookatmybabyspider · 16/02/2017 12:31

Since when has unemployment been a crime.

EmeraldScorn · 16/02/2017 12:40

She failed as a parent to protect her child(ren), there is no excuse for that at all.

I'm mindful that she was evidently a woman of low intellect and she herself had been abused/mistreated in the past, however that does not justify anything; It was up to her to look after Shannon, if she felt unable to do so then she should have relinquished custody of her/her siblings long ago.

I don't accept that on the basis of her "vulnerability" she should be given a free pass to sympathy; I believe she knew exactly what she was doing and I also think she was passively manipulative but because she wasn't the "brightest crayon in the box" she lacked the finesse to pull it off hence getting caught in spectacular fashion.

I can't feel sorry for her no matter what spin is put on the circumstances she faced at the time because she did have a choice and what she choose was to place her children at risk.

Someone was drugging Shannon for months, the "who done it" publicly remains a mystery yes but the "why" in my mind is perfectly clear, there can only be an insidious reason to explain why Shannon was being given sleeping medication and it's a disturbing thought to be honest.

The cops also found notes in the house that had been scribbled by Shannon to her brother wondering whether they were going to get dinner and talking about being hungry.... How can anyone sympathise with a woman who was neglecting to feed her children?

Karen Matthews made her daughter a victim out of selfishness, greed and stupidity, she wasn't fit to be a mother and hopefully her children are now having better lives without her destructive presence.

Maudlinmaud · 16/02/2017 12:42

AwkLookAtMybBabySpider I had to look it up, seems the poor law was abolished in 1929.

ColdFeetinWinter · 16/02/2017 12:43

I'm missing where it is described as a crime. I think the inference is that unemployment is either a voluntary choice to avoid paid work or involuntary unemployment is a situation which isn't healthy for an individual

I think children's services are in a terrible position. You only have to look on MN to see polarised views on the correct way to bring up children. One poster will righteously condemn and another will empathise and say "it's ok...you were stressed". Real life parenting is really hard and even harder in tough circumstances of poverty, poor education, poor family support, ill health. It's a fine line between supporting or condoning or condemning. A friend of mine (who works in this area) says that the care system is so broken that she thinks even terrible family situations are better than going into care!

ColdFeetinWinter · 16/02/2017 12:45

That sounds like I'm condoning Shannon's family abuse. I'm not. I suspect there are loads and loads of families in every town experiencing the same poor abusive childhoods. Society is failing those children.

MrsJayy · 16/02/2017 12:51

Lots of parents manage to bring their children up with low intellect poverty ill health yes it might be a struggle, but people like Karen Mathews do not care what they do to their kids people like Karen Mathews justify everything they do and take zero responsibility it is always somebody elses fault be it the government or whatever

JoffreyBaratheon · 16/02/2017 13:04

she thinks even terrible family situations are better than going into care!

Sounds like she had a very sheltered upbringing, then. And experience has failed to teach her any useful lessons.

The stuff I've heard and seen my neighbours do to their kids - care would be preferable. Even the worst care home and certainly a good foster home/adoptive parent.

Re. the TV drama... I get it why the writer would go with the romantic angle of "Beleaguered estate of people looked down on by society, band together as a powerful force... only to be betrayed." That's where the drama is. But I'm not sure that the truth of the situation lies in the same place as 'good drama'. I can totally see why they went with that angle, though.

eddiemairswife · 16/02/2017 13:06

I wonder if Shannon's school had any concerns about her. I haven't heard that they were involved at all, apart from confirming that she had returned from the swimming trip as normal.

JoffreyBaratheon · 16/02/2017 13:11

I worked in schools where kids had similar backgrounds. It's a sad thing to say but I suspect (and I could be wrong)... she wouldn't stand out. I once worked in a school where every kid in my class bar just one or two, had a 'step dad' or what I used to think of as 'funny uncles'... And more than one of them were on the Sex Offender's register. Kids with social workers were rare and the SS would never bother to turn up for case meetings, anyway.

Viviennemary · 16/02/2017 13:14

I did feel a bit more sympathy for her after watching the programme. She had all these children and lived in quite deprived circumstances financially. But on the other hand it was a dreadful thing to drug a child. That was worse than the lies and fake abduction story.

WannaBe · 16/02/2017 13:15

It's attitudes like the ones on this thread that mean that women like Karen Matthews are able to abuse their children time and time again and in many instances get away with doing so.

"Oh she was vulnerable/abused/a victim," yada yada yada. Interesting that no-one picked up on the fact that when she and Craig got together he was sixteen and she was what, 26/28? So a clear power imbalance there but nobody picks up on that because the younger party was a man and the older one a woman. If the age difference had been the other way around and KM had been sixteen people would be saying she'd been groomed as wel as everything else. Yet it appears she groomed a sixteen year old as well as drugging and abusing her children, faking the disappearance of one for money and she is the victim? I don't think so.

As for "nobody is evil," if you apply that to the likes of KM then presumably you believe that Fred west, Harold shipman, Ian Huntley were all just victims as well do you?

MrsJayy · 16/02/2017 13:23

Km let craig and his pals hang about her house drinking and whatever I agree with you wannabe women are seen as victims as vulnerable Women abuse children because they can. Craig had been living with her for 5 years he was 22 she was 10 years older how long had craig been having sex with her before he moved in but yeah karen was a victim

CoolCarrie · 16/02/2017 13:26

I am reserving my sympathies for all 7 of Matthews children, not for her, she was clearly a lazy ,stupid, feckless, hopeless 'parent ', and any learning difficulties she may have don't explain or excuse her vile behaviour to all her children over years.The drugging over months shows clearly how vile she and the others involved were imo
Where did she think her child was? What did she think could be happening to her daughter?
The men involved were evil, who would honestly keep another human being under a bed for weeks, it reminded me of me of that episode of The X files, sick !

Trainspotting1984 · 16/02/2017 13:32

I actually do think there has been a fair bit of excuse making on this thread. There is no inclination KM had a mental illness (and if she did, presumably it would've been raised in her defence) and her learning difficulties are said to be mild.

She clearly, as others have said, comes from a cycle of failure and inadequacy and was spectacularly stupid and selfish on top.

Twogoats · 16/02/2017 13:33

Karen is lucky that Shannon wasn't killed during her abduction. Shannon could have easily overdosed or suffocated, not that Karen would have cared.

Having learning disabilities does not excuse you from evil acts. Karen's iq is high enough to know right from wrong.

Elendon · 16/02/2017 13:48

Where was Karen's mother and father in all of this?

She was obviously abused and obviously had learning difficulties. I would put her mental age at 12 to be honest. Yes a 12 year old can have children, that doesn't mean they can parent. There are plenty of parents on mumsnet who don't parent their children responsibly, and they don't have difficulties.

I liked this programme. The uncle seemed to have legal representation, whereas Karen didn't. She should have had a significant adult with her.

One thing is certain from this programme, she isn't the most evil mother in Britain.

Elendon · 16/02/2017 13:50

Karen kept going on about best friends. It was as if she never grew up.

What she did was awful, but there was another person involved who had far more mental capability.

ShoutOutToMyEx · 16/02/2017 13:54

She was obviously abused and obviously had learning difficulties. I would put her mental age at 12 to be honest.

Oh god, I think younger. 6 or 7. At times her reasoning seemed like that of a toddler.

ApplePaltrow21 · 16/02/2017 13:57

Karen kept going on about best friends. It was as if she never grew up. What she did was awful, but there was another person involved who had far more mental capability.

Who? The uncle had a much lower mental capacity than she did.

Honestly, go and watch some interviews with Julie and Natalie, the neighbor today. They give me the creeps.

All the children should have been in care. Probably of the entire neighborhood - but then you get people screaming about their rights.

Megatherium · 16/02/2017 13:57

ApplePaltrow, you seem to have been watching a different show. The programme didn't portray Matthews as a victim of Donovan - they showed him pretty accurately as a man with learning difficulties who said he was just doing what she told him to do, and it rang true. It also portrayed Craig as pretty passive; yes, it showed her getting upset when she claimed she was just trying to leave him, but it also made it very clear that her account wasn't necessarily to be believed. They also showed her lying about pointless things like the bracelet she was given, and her very strange behaviour when Shannon was found. She certainly didn't come over to me as "essentially a nice person who is just a bit neglectful."

ApplePaltrow21 · 16/02/2017 13:58

If she had the mental age of a 6 year old, she never would have been convicted. Again, the documentary =/= real life. I feel sorry for the kids unlucky enough to be born to these parents, condemned to these worthless lives because it's more PC to cast women as helpless victims.

ApplePaltrow21 · 16/02/2017 14:03

Megatherium

Disagree. she came across as childlike, meek and harmless. She basically lied a bit about silly things, got in over her head but spent most of her time trying to be a "gud mum". They didn't show her violence or abuse of the kids, they didn't show her spending money of cigarettes whilst her children starved. They didn't show her doing anything wrong except crying a bit and not wanting to take responsibility for things.

They basically made up a story of a nice simply cowed woman who was a victim of everyone including the legal system.

It barely makes any sense. She has two best mates who look after her kids all the time but no one spots any bruises? Her prior neighbors (not Natalie or Julie - the "community heroes" of the tv show) reported them multiple times, said the kids were neglected, the house stank, it was disgusting, they were abused. But somehow her "best mates" Julie and Natalie didn't see anything at all?

ShoutOutToMyEx · 16/02/2017 14:04

'I came to the cynical conclusion that 'Care in the community' means "Neighbours pick up the phone when they see something unthinkable". It is far cheaper than, you know, actually treating people and getting their kids out of harm's way.

This x 1000

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