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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To have judged this mum?

342 replies

Flowersinyourhair · 15/02/2017 14:42

I've just witnessed some awful parenting in a cafe and feel slightly rubbish that I looked away and said nothing.

Sitting in a cafe at lunchtime with my two girls (youngest a toddler, oldest 10). On the table next to us are two women, clearly friends, and their collective 3 children (a baby, an 18 month old-ish and a toddler of a similar age to mine). Lots of smiling between the kids, parents chatting etc. All well, until it's time for them to leave.

Woman 1 grabs hold of the toddler with no preamble, no warning, just reaches over and grabs him while still chatting to her friend. Child predictable yells "no", starts crying and kicking off about leaving. Mother forcibly shoves him into his pushchair next to the 18 month old sibling. Child now crying in earnest. Mum gets down in his face and yells at him to "shut up or I'll give you something to cry about". Child now desperate. He reaches out and grabs something from the table, knocking some bottles over. Mother immediately hits him. It then becomes clear that he's grabbed the bottle because he was thirsty. Mother now gives him the drink, telling him for not telling her he needed a drink and being "a naughty boy" instead. At one point she apologise to the friend she was with who said "it's ok". The woman then said to the child "she doesn't think you're ok. She thinks you're a naughty boy who deserved that smack".
My children were really upset by this. When this woman shouted, she really shouted and they were really close to where we were sat.

I kept quiet throughout but to be honest I wish I'd said something. If this woman behaves like that in public, lord knows what those children go through at home. Notably, when she shouted in the toddlers face, the 18 month old sitting right next to him didn't even flinch.

The other mum, with the baby, gave me a "sorry" look as they left. I'm hoping that maybe she's in a position to intervene if needed.

OP posts:
MommaGee · 16/02/2017 11:16

Trifle up until the point where she's being abusive. Its her child not her property

Trifleorbust · 16/02/2017 11:16

Anatidae: I am not responsible for the waitress. It is illegal for me to smack the waitress. I see no need to smack the waitress. As it happens I see no need to smack my child either, but it has nothing to do with whether I would smack the waitress. I am not her parent.

MajorGeneralBuldeeff · 16/02/2017 11:16

Please don't patronise me by telling me to chill out. You are being goady and unkind. Perhaps you need to find a forum where those types of behaviour are acceptable?

I do feel quite sorry for you, bullet you clearly need to point score at all costs.

Trifleorbust · 16/02/2017 11:16

MommaGee: Which is why there are laws governing her behaviour towards her child, none of which she has broken.

Fakenewsday · 16/02/2017 11:17

Rixera my sister's kids are past this point now, but I remember at the time she got so much bloody advice and she was just exhausted, fuckwit ex-DH who was less than any use, and every assessment her kids had always came back to criticising her parenting - she has serious MH issues on top of 3 kids, 2 with additional needs. And she still couldn't get any bloody free nursery hours - i think now 2 year olds who's parents are on v low incomes can but it should really be extended right back to 3 months for struggling families.

Annie592 · 16/02/2017 11:18

I agree Anatidae It probably wouldn't make a difference on one occasion, but if she was called out on it a few times, it might make her think twice. When I read the OP I thought- completely agree, that's a horrible situation, not 100% sure what I would have done so interested to see the responses- and am amazed at the number of posts defending this behaviour. It is not ok to hit a child and scream in their face! I don't care if it's 'not illegal'- lots of horrible behaviour is perfectly legal- doesn't mean it's morally right. Are there really people who think that's fine? Or that it's justified by having a bit of a bad day?

bulletjournal · 16/02/2017 11:19

Major you really don't like people disagreeing with you and have to resort to personal attack, haven't you. You really should calm down Grin

Trifleorbust · 16/02/2017 11:22

Annie592: And lots of things aren't morally right IN YOUR OPINION. It doesn't make it your place to involve yourself where your opinion is irrelevant to the person in question.

I think it is disgusting, for example, to smoke in a home where there are children. It is legal. SS would not get involved. Should I knock on the doors of everyone I know who does it and tell them how disgusting their behaviour is and offer them advice on quitting? If not, why not?

MommaGee · 16/02/2017 11:23

trifle unless you deem her screa.ing in the child's face as vernal/ emotional abuse and unless she hit her with sufficient force to leave a mark. And I concede that neither of us know the answer to that from this post

Olympiathequeen · 16/02/2017 11:24

That's just horrifying but would it have helped the situation if you'd said something to her? Probably she would just have shouted at you and upset your children further. It wouldn't have stopped her hitting or shouting at her children and you couldn't report a stranger to SS. So I think you just have to hope her behaviour is picked up by others and just try to explain the situation to your own children.

User24601isTaken · 16/02/2017 11:25

hmm bullet when she wants me to join in she says 'mummy play', when she wants me to stop she says bye bye and I either hang out on the sofa behind her or tidy up a bit.

A generation of toddlers calling the shots. God help us all. Confused

Trifleorbust · 16/02/2017 11:25

MommaGee: Well, I think from this post that she obviously didn't, or it would probably say she beat him half to death!

Fakenewsday · 16/02/2017 11:29

or you could ask the person running the cafe if they knew the mum's name. You might have asked the 3 year old what his name was?

HalfShellHero · 16/02/2017 11:29

Ah, we've gone from an example of many forms of bad choices, taking a child away from a place with no warning , shouting emotional cruelty physical cruelty etc...to all parents who smack are evil, nice nuanced debate I see...

Rixera · 16/02/2017 11:29

It's hardly calling the shots to say she wants to do her Lego on her own, Jesus Christ
She still has to pack up when we're going out, mind

MommaGee · 16/02/2017 11:30

hmm bullet when she wants me to join in she says 'mummy play', when she wants me to stop she says bye bye and I either hang out on the sofa behind her or tidy up a bit.
A generation of toddlers calling the shots. God help us all
Yes please dont play with your child when they ask you, they'll get ideas of grandeur. Meanwhile be sire to interrupt them plying nicely alone and insist on joining in. Children shouldn't be allowed autonomy over how to play.

Trifle I doubt wed disagree on a clear case of abuse. This isnt and whilst i disageee with you I'm not sire going in circles is helping much. Have a Cake

Rixera · 16/02/2017 11:31

And hitting and screaming at your child is still wrong, what nuances could make that okay?

MommaGee · 16/02/2017 11:33

For clarity this isn't a clear case of abuse. I think its abusive. You dont. Were going in circles

Trifleorbust · 16/02/2017 11:34

MommaGee: Cake

Fakenewsday · 16/02/2017 11:35

but rather than the whole smacking vs not-smacking debate, honestly, try and get names and report if you see parenting that you consider to be below a minimum standard, allowing for bad days etc. It will help eventually if enough people report worrying parenting.

MommaGee · 16/02/2017 11:36

rixera home start don't take the kid without you, I was categorically told she couldn't

HalfShellHero · 16/02/2017 11:36

A tap on the hand/bum after 3 instructions have been ignored is how I was raised and how many children that's not akin to abuse this woman's behaviour was bad yes but hysteria and generalisations help noone...

LostMyDotBrain · 16/02/2017 11:37

Not hitting children isn't a parenting style

I don't think anyone has said it is. Nor have they said that hitting children is part of a particular parenting style. The opposite in fact. Parents of any 'style' can lose their shit and have moments they regret. Looking at the calm half hour before that doesn't mean that the woman in question hasn't been having a rough time, whether the cause is toddler behaviour or something else.

Besides, the OP clearly objected to how this mother went about things before the shouting and the smack happened. She was already talking about lack of preamble and warning and desperation. That is judging her parenting style.

I do wonder how many parents would come out smelling of roses if we were labelled abusive or neglectful based solely on our worst parenting moments. Because frankly, unless you do, you shouldn't be judging this. Strip away the emotive language and you're left with a parent who was a bit abrasive then shouted at her kid and smacked his arm. It's not great. But I have to wonder if I'd look much better if someone saw only my worst bits of parenting. I've never smacked DD but I've certainly lost my shit once or twice and been ashamed of myself after.

KitKats28 · 16/02/2017 11:40

All this "toddlers are hard work" drivel winds me up. It's an excuse for absolutely everything. Hitting them, screaming at them, not parenting them, letting them run riot, reasoning with them, fannying around them being wet....

I can be quite hard work. I have severe anxiety, several disabilities, depression and occasional PMT. That doesn't make it ok for anyone to shout at me or slap me or push me.

My elderly relative had advanced dementia and mostly behaved like an annoying toddler; spitting, swearing, soiling himself, running away. Under no circumstances on the planet would it have been ok for his caregivers to shout at him or slap him or push him.

I don't give a shit if it is legal to slap your children around, it is not moral or fair or good.

BorrowedHeart · 16/02/2017 11:42

I think you have dramatised it to get more people to say you are right, the fact is you did nothing so can't complain about it now. How do you know she was stressed and tired and her child is like this all the time? You have no idea, this is a small look into this woman's life and you have no idea what she has gone through, unless you know for a fact this is how she treats her kid all the time then you should butt out and leave it.