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Original poster

To be ashamed of the Labour Party leadership

956 replies

20nil · 11/02/2017 21:43

Long term member, did not support Corbyn, but even I am surprised by quite how bad he's been.

Where is the opposition? I get that Brexit is difficult, but where is Labour on the collapse of the NHS, the explosion of homelessness, the decimation of local council funding and the ticking bomb that is school funding?

Why is it that we now look to the Lords, the Cof E and petitions to be the opposition?

Shocking state of affairs.

OP posts:
WhirlwindHugs · 12/02/2017 07:09

He did nothing at all to demand a say in how brexit would be done. A private donor had to go to the courts to even give MPs a democratic say in the process because Corbyn did nothing. Corbyn has taken no adbantage of it. Talking at PMQs etc is not doing things. Doing things is acting on your words. He does not do that.

He whipped his MPs into voting for the Tory Brexit, and made it known he would do so in advance - how the fuck is that standing up for his vision?

WhirlwindHugs · 12/02/2017 07:21

More to the point. To me the Labour party was the party that looked at all the evidence about what would be best for everyone, but particularly the vulnerable/poor then acted on that decision.

That is not Corbyn's list. Re nationalising the railway is a nice idea but deeply inessential when things that are the successful legacy of the labour party like sure start centres are being cut without such as a whimper.

His list is idealistic, and so is his position on Brexit. It's based on ideals from decades ago not facts now.

makeourfuture · 12/02/2017 08:07

Having read the recent Institute of Fiscal Studies report on the state of our current predicament, it is apparent that we are in deep crisis. We have never addressed the crash and it's underlying causes. Austerity hasn't worked, and it can't. It is the darkest future we face than any in modern history. The Tories are ushering in a new feudalism.

Is Jeremy Corbyn our saviour? of course not. These very fundamental, systemic problems we face will be with us far longer than he or May or Farage. But Corbyn sees and acknowledges these things. He is the only one with credible plans to begin addressing the awful situation we face.

cowgirlsareforever · 12/02/2017 08:34

Corbyn may arguably have credible plans but sadly he lacks the basic skills to put those plans into place. He is a terrible leader.

MrsRuby · 12/02/2017 08:50

It's Hilary versus Donald people.

Stop wringing your hands about how JC isn't quite perfect in this or that respect and consider that he is going to attempt something different for the country. Something much better than the conservatives are offering - they are always only interested in money and making the rich richer. Something with more conviction and credibility than the Lib dems can offer.

It's a less than perfect Labour who work for the actual people of this country or the evil Tories who are raping the country of assets to make the wealthiest even wealthier.

No contest.

Lalsy · 12/02/2017 09:00

Christmas, yes that may be true about people who "should" be voting Labour - who knows? But my point was in response to your comment about "Labour voters" - a majority of whom (from 2015) voted Remain and a majority f whom now prefer May to Corbyn. That is a fuck-up of such profound proportions I don't know where to start.

That list is not a list of policies or a plan. I would like more rainbows and unicorns too. I would really like to hear from JC supporters about how they think he can win an election, how he can convince the sort of voters Christmas is talking about given his baggage, and about how he can turn his pledges into credible, detailed policies.

I have been a Labour voter all my life, left the party at the time of the first Gulf War, only rejoined in 2010, wanted an credible anti-austerity candidate in 2015. For the first time EVER, I will have to consider not voting Labour next time if JC is still leader (and leaving the party). How can he win a GE?

SeaWitchly · 12/02/2017 09:02

Exactly makeourfuture

I agree that Corbyn is exactly the leader we need.

Why on earth would anyone vote for a leader in the Cameron, Farage or Clegg mould? Promise the world and as a PP said, deliver shit sandwiches.

Bloody Cameron was the one who got us in this mess with the referendum, austerity and 'we are all in this together' [except we aren't when he can fuck up on a massive scale and still swan off to a directorship for a bank and public speaking circuit].

Corbyn realises the brexit has to happen, the referendum can't be undone.

Thanks entirely to Cameron and the Tory party. The 'will of the people' must now be done and the UK is leaving the EU. And Corbyn is the only politician who is thinking and talking about how to make life better for ordinary people, not the wealthy corporations as per the Tories.

He is a leader with strength and principles and commitment. But by all means, vote Tory again and get exactly what we have all had to bear for the past 7 years Hmm

cowgirlsareforever · 12/02/2017 09:06

Corbyn isn't the leader we need. Neither was Milliband. They have nothing in common with the people in Labour heartlands. The people of Stoke and Leigh despair of them.

SeaWitchly · 12/02/2017 09:12

And you know people talking about 'rainbows', ''unicorns' and 'magic money trees' really pisses me off. It is lazy thinking imo.

Here are JC policies -[[http://www.jeremyforlabour.com/policies]]
Very easy to find on-line but don't expect accurate reporting in most of the MSM.

I have been a Labour voter all my life, left the party at the time of the first Gulf War, only rejoined in 2010, wanted an credible anti-austerity candidate in 2015. For the first time EVER, I will have to consider not voting Labour next time if JC is still leader (and leaving the party). How can he win a GE?

Now see, this is absolutely incomprehensible. You have apparently been a labour voter all your life? The Labour party now has an anti-austerity candidate [that you say you want] and you won't vote for him because you essentially believe he is not credible? Is it because you feel that others won't vote for him, so you won't either?

SeaWitchly · 12/02/2017 09:13

www.jeremyforlabour.com/policies

cowgirlsareforever · 12/02/2017 09:14

People will only vote for leaders they connect with. That's the way it's always been in politics.

SeaWitchly · 12/02/2017 09:14

So cowgirls who currently on the current political stage do the people of Stoke and Leigh believe will actually be working in and for their best interests?

SeaWitchly · 12/02/2017 09:16

Yes, I agree cowgirl but perhaps people need to look beyond the headlines of the MSM and have a think about whether these publications are actually working in their best interests.

cowgirlsareforever · 12/02/2017 09:19

And it's fine having good policies buried on websites but if you can't go to Stoke, talk to the people and take on UKIP head on then step aside and let somebody who can do it get on with the fucking job.

bluejelly · 12/02/2017 09:19

Whatever you think of his principles he is a shit leader.

^ this is so true. Leadership is about so much more than being "right". It's about bringing people with you. He has totally failed to do that within his own party. And if you can't do that within your own party, how can you do that within your country?

Lalsy · 12/02/2017 09:27

Thanks Seawitchly, I am familiar with his policies and no, I don't think they are anything like detailed or credible enough. Rainbows and unicorns pretty well sums up the the NHS one I think. Richard Murphy has apologised for supporting him.

You are right - I don't think he is a credible candidate - he is a terrible leader and makes appalling decisions in a crisis - he called for the immediate triggering of A50 on June 24th when no-one knew what it meant. And I don't think he will ever win over the voters described below because of his past.

Elendon · 12/02/2017 09:28

SeaWitchly How do you think Corbyn is going to get those policies implemented? He's not electable and Labour isn't electable under his leadership. A man who spent his political career (and he is the epitome of career politician), voting against his Party whilst in power.

Corbyn, a principled man, wont budge on anything. Inflexibility will be his downfall. And he's not an inspiring speaker either. He has to appeal to those across the political spectrum. May certainly doesn't.

Elendon · 12/02/2017 09:30

Cross posting with a few posters!

It makes me angry to see the collapse of the Labour Party. How low will it have to go before defeat is finally accepted?

Lalsy · 12/02/2017 09:32

Sorry, missed your last question. If I don't vote Labour, it will be because I don't trust the leader (partly because of hat those who tried to work with him have said and partly because of things he has said and done that are well documented).

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 12/02/2017 09:32

Stop wringing your hands about how JC isn't quite perfect in this or that respect and consider that he is going to attempt something different for the country

Yep sweeping anti semitism under the carpet and other such things is really 'attempting something different for the country'.

Getting someone to undertake a review then giving hem a peeridge for doing so is indefensible. The incidences that have been given about him and his communication by former members of the shadow cabinet is indefensible as are some of the other things he has done as a back bencher.

makeourfuture · 12/02/2017 09:34

The stakes are so high now. There has been absolutely no effort at all to correct the conditions that led to the ongoing financial crisis. In fact we have seen the powers that be inject incredible levels of resources into keeping the old broken system gasping along. It cannot keep going. The Tories are using this to restructure, along sick ideological lines, our society. Punishing the poor, the worker.

I don't care if Corbyn has a mohawk, or rides his bicycle naked across the heath. Maybe he'd be a boring dinner guest. It doesn't matter. His policies begin to address this dire situation we are in.

Elendon · 12/02/2017 09:40

But Corbyn thinks he is perfect and those who support him also think this. He can do no wrong in their and his eyes.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 12/02/2017 09:40

His policies begin to address this dire situation we are in

His policies have no realistic costings, or how they would actually in reality work.

Labour will lose MPs in the boundary changes. They will lose even more under him.

The wider electorate don't like him and never have.

RubyWinterstorm · 12/02/2017 09:41

i predict a come back for the LibDems (picking up both Labour and Tory remain voters)

Other ex-labour votes will go to Ukip

Labour is pretty much over I think Sad

Andrewofgg · 12/02/2017 09:42

makeourfuture His policies might bring about the Second Coming and Eternal Peace and Plenty but if the electorate is not buying that's not going to help, is it?

If they lose those two by-elections on 23 February who is going to say that it's time to change?