To ask you to help me argue with an anti-vaxxer on fb

[GoesDownLikeACupOfColdSick]

I know, I know. But it's Saturday night, DP is out and I am just home whilst our (fully vaccinated!) DD is asleep.

What do I say to someone who is convinced that we should all do our own research, that vaccines are only about big pharma making big bucks, and that the govt hushes up vaccine damage??

Which is precisely when I talk to parents face to face rather than having one sided conversations on the internet yes I have spent a large proportion of my working day treating a child that would most likely not be in iTu had the vaccine program been followed, pretty simple. Lotti that's quite an assumption to make that I don't have a child with a disability isn't it? Again I find that presentation of information to parents wanting information on risk v benefit in a face to face basis is much more effective than time wasting with keyboard battles. Some of us take our jobs, position to influence and educate extremely seriously and I'm very happy that I can give parents facts rather than Anecdotal examples. Having been on 'both sides' of the fence I'm in an unusual and beneficial position op I find threads like this are heavy on personal opinion and examples, sometimes it's best to step away.

I doubt anyone makes a decision based on googling - where is your evidence for that?

Yes, it's an assumption based on the fact that if you did Have a child like this you might show a bit more empathy as to why some people worry about risks and less talking down to people in your posts

How do you prove vaccine damage mega?

By all that scientific research referred to above. If it hasn't proved it, it has to remain in doubt.

It's an interesting fact that, despite having an awful lot of public money thrown at the issue, Wakefield and his supporters didn't manage to prove what he claimed about vaccine damage. The difficulty is that, understandably, a parent looking for a reason for their child's regression at around age 2 may well find it more understandable to tie it in with the vaccination he had at roughly the same time whilst being unaware of all the evidence that autism very frequently manifests itself at around that age whether the child has been vaccinated or not.

Devilish sorry I do mean to leave the thread but I wanted to reassure you- i really don't see any where that vaccine side effects are accepted whereas other drugs are not, I suspect that may be the side of the media you see. All reactions are taken seriously and weighed up, luckily we HAVE continually evolving medicine to improve on side effects.

The trouble is, lottieandmia, that your assumption is wrong, at least in my case. You simply cannot make such sweeping judgments about people or indeed facts.

you didn't google it and decide for yourself which diseases your kids could sprdead freely around the neighbourhood and which they couldn't!

Again, you seem to think that unvaccinated kids are merrily skipping around spreading diseases. Just because a child (or adult) is unvaccinated doesn't mean they are dripping in viruses...

Lotti that's an incredibly generalised statement which is obviously influenced by your own experience. Unfortunately that could be related to so many other procedures however vaccines is your focus despite the evidence. Another reason why I tend to keep to face to face discussion. Perhaps I can show a link as to why my child's leukaemia was vaccine related, see the point?

'If it hasn't proved it, it has to remain in doubt.'

It's not in the interests of the authorities to prove a case of vaccine damage. So it's on the parents. Who will be at a disadvantage and probably have to get private reports. But I think if your child went deaf overnight after a vaccination you'd probably not be inclined to feel it was 'just one of those things'

Why all the talk about Wakefield? I don't see what he has to do with this discussion. And he was never anti-vaccination anyway as far as I know.

Bettypants, under reporting of adverse drug reactions is a well known and recognised problem.

No, Mimi, but the chances of that are less likely if they have had all the recommended vaccines.

If every parent with an alleged masters or gcse in something irrelevant or 20 minute bus ride with wifi thinks that qualifies them to make decisions that override the recommendations of bodies such as the WHO or the CDC or the NHS, then where does that stop?!

under reporting of adverse drug reactions is a well known and recognised problem

eh? surely this statement contradicts itself!

In the past, vaccination policy in the UK did not always follow the recommendations of the WHO. Why do you think that is?

GoesDown, no it doesn't. :)

Erm, the WHO (and NHS) recommend breastfeeding for at least two years. How many women do you know that follow that guidance?

Ok so if they aren't reported, how are they known about, other than by woolly Facebook threads about big pharma, of course!

Oh well why don't we just ignore everything they say then?!

If every parent with an alleged masters or gcse in something irrelevant or 20 minute bus ride with wifi thinks that qualifies them to make decisions that override the recommendations of bodies such as the WHO or the CDC or the NHS, then where does that stop?!

Who are you talking about?

Ah, so it's ok to follow their advice but only if it's in relation to vaccinations?

Anyone who thinks they know best when they have zero qualifications in the field of immunology or even medicine, mimi

Breastfeeding is hugely important to me and I breastfed until about 17 months - only stopped because she started biting really hard!! But breastfeeding isn't an issue of public health, is it? My decision to breast or bottle feed can't infect other people.

Bettyspants - that has not been my experience at all.

I have spent the last year trying to get someone - anyone - to take the potential drug interactions that my son is on seriously.

So drug 1 - nasty side effects - initially told I was imagining it - then accepted.

So tried to get off drug 1. Couldn't.

So drug 2 introduced - as a swap. Except still couldn't get off drug 1. But it was noted that drug 2 stopped drug 1 side effects. So kept on it.

Drug 3 then introduced by a different doctor. I asked about the fact that everything says drug 3 should not be taken with drug 2 and he said that drug 2 was nothing to do with him.

So I went to the doctor who prescribed drug 1 & 2 who said he couldn't advise about drug 3. A ten second google tells me drug 2 & 3 should not be given together (drug 3 is essential, drug 2 is know to be highly addictive and hard to get off - drug 1 is meant to be easy to stop but we haven't managed it).

Drug 1 and drug 3 have known serious side effects and ds1 should be given routine blood tests. That has not happened.

There's a totally different standard of care for people with severe learning disabilities. And if you are non-verbal forget it. That is why the age of death is so much lower for people with severe learning disabilities.

As for anyone having any interest in how a child got into this state years ago - ha, forget it. I have given my suspicions - they have been accepted & made it onto letters (I seem to be deemed 'credible' by doctors). No-one has actually carried out any tests to see whether I might be right or wrong.

So no in my experience in people with learning disabilities nothing is taken very seriously. I seem to be deciding his seizure medication dose which is a joke (if I had my way he'd be on a different one as it's not controlling his focals imo).

Me too GoesDown and still going strong at 2.5 years old.

You're lucky yours doesn't bite. Nipples are not somewhere you ever want to see bleeding!!

But yes, breastfeeding does give your child protection from some diseases which in turn it won't spread to other children, so yes, does affect the wider community, in the same way vaccines are supposed to.