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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask you to help me argue with an anti-vaxxer on fb

854 replies

GoesDownLikeACupOfColdSick · 11/02/2017 21:24

I know, I know. But it's Saturday night, DP is out and I am just home whilst our (fully vaccinated!) DD is asleep.

What do I say to someone who is convinced that we should all do our own research, that vaccines are only about big pharma making big bucks, and that the govt hushes up vaccine damage??

OP posts:
BorrowedHeart · 14/02/2017 12:38

goesdown you are coming across very rude. Some people vaccinate some don't, it isn't your choice and it will never be your choice. Are you going to ask every child or parent wether they are vaccinated or not? If you won't then just shut up, arguing won't solve anything nor will it make people change how they think, therefore you might as well just stop. Have you yourself had all your boosters?

Bettyspants · 14/02/2017 12:43

Devilish, I'm incredibly sorry and frustrated for you that you've had that experience. Unfortunately I do think time factors and perhaps a Drs personal view may influence how they treat/investigate . I'm a nurse consultant and get significantly more time than Drs doing the same job , I can only say that I personally take parents concerns very seriously, sometimes I can't come up with a solution or reason though but I DO involve them in the decision making. Having DD1 being extremely ill (and left with life long complications) I made the error of joining internet discussions and at an all time low became convinced I had caused her illness through following medical advice. The horrendous information that parents clearly believed and I became involved in investigating prompted me to further my own career to help other parents. Going off track - I'm also sorry to say that I think you are right, as a very generalised statement overall I'm afraid I do believe their are many severely disabled children who have sub optimum treatment . Again I really dislike these threads instead of being a hive of information they tend to be judgemental and personalised which may be intentional or not

Original poster
GoesDownLikeACupOfColdSick · 14/02/2017 12:58

Well borrowed aren't you a treat?!

Yep, boostered up.

Now take your semi literate ramblings and boff off, there's a good little conspiracy theorist.

OP posts:
Devilishpyjamas · 14/02/2017 12:58

To be honest I don't have complaints about individual doctors. We see senior consultants and they usually say they don't know in response to my questions. I appreciate the honesty.

However, while some things are well organised (MRI's under the LD team for eg) there's such a huge lack of understanding of people like ds1 (physically as a child he was 'perfect' - less so now after two years of strong drugs & epilepsy) - it's all in the research stage and does not translate into care.

I made a point of showing a consultant a video of ds1 taken two years ago & he was shocked (& moved) by the change in him. Even. made it into the letter. If I hadn't shown the video he would have assumed what he saw in front of him was just who ds1 is - a severely leaning disabled young adult. Yes, but, not like he is now.

I could do the same with baby videos.

I know that if either of my other children had changed as dramatically as ds1 has and as quickly there would be a search for answers. Instead there just isn't any. I look around and see it happening to others and wonder what is going on. To get any treatment is just a massive battle.

bumbleymummy · 14/02/2017 13:01

GoesDown. There are plenty of papers written about it if you're actually interested. No need to use Facebook.

lottieandmia · 14/02/2017 13:03

Borrowed doesn't sound like a conspiracy theorist to me. She's just stating a fact that it's down to parental choice. OP, you are sounding childish.

Wrt medications for severely disabled children I absolutely agree. I don't feel my dd is on the right medications. Her psychiatrist won't budge though. I am on the point of seeing someone privately, she's been on risperidone since she was about 10. But nobody seems to know why and I don't think it does very much to help her. Likewise she's been prescribed clonazepam as a PRN but it doesn't do very much to reduce her anxiety if she's self injuring.

Devilishpyjamas · 14/02/2017 13:13

And ask them how risperidone works when prescribed off label for LD's

MimiTheWonderGoat · 14/02/2017 13:19

*How many teenagers or children are killed in car accidents every year? Statistically it is significantly many more than those who are damaged by vaccines.

Yet how many of the unqualified parents who think they are so clever with their research will stop their children from driving or getting in a car?*

I forgot to reply to this ridiculous analogy. You can't vaccinate children against car accidents either. They are accidents. Throwing an equally ridiculous statement back at you, why bother vaccinating children when there are so many other risks to their health like being maimed by a dog, or drowning....or car accidents!

Original poster
GoesDownLikeACupOfColdSick · 14/02/2017 13:21

How is it a ridiculous analogy? We are talking about parents assessing risks to their children. Why do vaccinations turn so many people into keyboard experts, when something that is far more likely to be dangerous is just accepted by the same people?

OP posts:
GoesDownLikeACupOfColdSick · 14/02/2017 13:23

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

MimiTheWonderGoat · 14/02/2017 13:24

Urgh.

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 14/02/2017 13:27

The under-reporting of adverse events is indeed a very well recognised phenomenon. I'm surprised anyone would be so adamant that it's not an issue. The paper below examines methods that have been implemented to try to improve this.

From the introduction (giving background to the issue):
"Several studies have suggested that less than 10 % of detected ADRs are effectively reported to medicine regulatory authorities [5, 6]."

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4772685/

MimiTheWonderGoat · 14/02/2017 13:28

Nobody's asking you to trust a random mumsnetter. That's why people tell you to do your own research...and not rely on duff advice, whether it be from a random or from your gp. Gp's really don't know everything. Don't get me started on that topic!

Devilishpyjamas · 14/02/2017 13:29

Depends who the mumsnetter is and who the doctor is goes.

Ds1's case is way above the heads of many doctors TBH. If there's a mumsnetter around with who understands pharmacology better than me I'd love to talk to them.

BedtimeDrama · 14/02/2017 13:30

OP, I accept your original post may not have been specifically aimed at the people unmentioned in my post earlier, but sometimes that information can be added to the melting pot of a parent who doesn't want to vaccinate. They maybe arguing a pharma-conspiracy but it's possibly not 100% their reason for their choice.

It just concerned me that if you start labelling people, then the innocents who have different hugely because of vaccinations will be judged harshly, when it's none of our business.

Just be glad you've got access to it for your own kids and don't be so militant! We all carry our own problems and this sort of thing really doesn't help people. It's a bit holier than thou without substance.

BedtimeDrama · 14/02/2017 13:32

Oops sorry for typos! Siri can be great for on the go but hard to spot typos when they're correctly spelled but only out of context!

BorrowedHeart · 14/02/2017 13:33

Really fucking rude! My kids are vaccinated, well the younger can't have them all. How the fuck does that make me a conspiracy theorist??

BorrowedHeart · 14/02/2017 13:35

How fucking dare you op!! My kids will never t cause harm to anyone, seeing as if you actually read my fucking posts you will see they are both up to date on vaccines! Oh sorry the youngest can't have live ones, should I kill her just to protect everyone else's kids?

BorrowedHeart · 14/02/2017 13:38

Oh and just to add, there have been times where I was right about certain medications and feeds etc (not vaccines I know) and have done my own thing only for my daughter to improve, sometimes doctors don't know it all and a bit of extra research and talking to those going through what you or your child is, can really help. You are on here purely for a fight and to hide behind a random name just to patronise and have a go at people.

WayfaringStranger · 14/02/2017 13:40

You're really aggressive, there is no need. You can't handle people disagreeing with you. If your child is vaccinated, you don't need to worry about germy kids mixing with yours because yours are protected anyway.

Original poster
GoesDownLikeACupOfColdSick · 14/02/2017 13:46

That's right borrowed - I'm the one who started being "fucking rude" by telling you to "shut up" - oh no wait, that was YOU Grin Grin

"Do your own research" is a rather infuriating phrase though. Most. People. Are. Simply. Not. Qualified. To. Do. That. Sort. Of. Research. And if they make the wrong decision it's not just their own child they could affect.

OP posts:
BlackeyedSusan · 14/02/2017 13:53

ds is autistic. ds had mmr. ds showed autistic traits well before he had the mmr.

bumbleymummy · 14/02/2017 13:53

What you deem to be the 'wrong decision' may not be the wrong decision for their child/family.

lottieandmia · 14/02/2017 13:57

That's rubbish OP. Most parents absolutely are qualified to know what's right for their child.

MimiTheWonderGoat · 14/02/2017 14:00

If you can read and speak then you can do research. Ask your own doctor to explain the risks. If they can't (which is common) then they may refer you to a pediatrician or the vaccine manufacturer who can try to explain. That's research. The pediatrician were referred to completely understood our concerns but added "I'm paid to tell you that you should vaccinate your child, but with your family history you need to make the right decision for you."
The vaccine manufacturer (well, their client facing numpty) told me the crap I posted earlier about vaccines not being tested for allergic reactions because they are as innocuous as water. I know that's not true, but if they are peddling that as fact, how can we trust anything else they say. So, you do your research, and you make your choice, and you live with the consequences, and sadly there can be terrible consequences on both sides of the argument.