To ask you to help me argue with an anti-vaxxer on fb

[GoesDownLikeACupOfColdSick]

I know, I know. But it's Saturday night, DP is out and I am just home whilst our (fully vaccinated!) DD is asleep.

What do I say to someone who is convinced that we should all do our own research, that vaccines are only about big pharma making big bucks, and that the govt hushes up vaccine damage??

Accept that they're entitled to their ow n opinions and carry on scrolling down?

Why argue? Why does it matter? You won't convince him so why bother? If he wants to research it he will.

Agree with Joffrey: there's little point entering into a discussion as it will just go around in circles. They don't listen to facts and/or twist them to their agenda (#alternative facts). You'll only end up deeply frustrated.

I second what Twofurrycats said.

I'm getting bored of these anti vaxxer types.

It used to just be the eccentric conspiracy theorists who used to be like this.

Now it seems to be almost trendy?

What Hodgeofthehedge said - that Pen and Teller sketch is great. Just accept you won't change their mind though but I suppose you might make someone else reading think. I've done my time on those threads and now just try to avoid getting drawn in - massive time suck where I end up researching ridiculous theories to provide evidence against them.

Wondering if his cure is aloe crap. Quite a few of their bots chuck shite out about vaccinations are bad and aloe cures autism amongst other things

I used to have one of these on FB, it's pointless arguing with them because they don't understand even very basic scientific principles. And since most children are vaccinated, and herd immunity is pretty effective for most vaccine-preventable diseases, they get away with their decision --> which just adds fuel to their misconstrued theories.

I got de-friended by mine. In some ways I kind of miss the daily entertainment value in reading the bonkers ranting

I was going to post the image EndoplasmicReticulum did.

But instead here's a fun fact: it was only recently discovered why it was that when the measles vaccine was introduced, as well as deaths from measles massively going down there was also a simultaneous massive drop in childhood deaths from other unrelated causes like pneumonia and various things that aren't or can't be vaccinated against. The same effect is seen in the history of each country as measles vaccines are rolled out. It turns out that having measles and recovering from it "getting the immunity naturally" massively weakens the child's immune system for the next 2-3 years making death from an apparently unrelated illness massively more likely.

Tell them to talk to parents whose kids have died from or suffered life changing medical problems as a result of these illnesses. Tell them to research online or visit a hospital if they want proof. The risk of complications from measles is real and the risk of complications from vaccines has yet to be proven.

If you are that sure of your convictions to vaccinate your children surely you do not need the help of strangers on the internet..?

I wouldnt try to argue with crazy people because to me its simple:

1. Weve almost got rid of lots of diseases.
2. Some children cant have vaccines and rely on herd immunity to reduce spread
3. Anyone who is an anti-vax person clearly values their conspiracy theories and trendy fad more than keeping children alive.
4. Its herd immunity which is keeping the anti vac children safe - not their lack of vacvine
5. But you cant rationally explain things to morons.

Ive got a green parenting book and tjey make a BIG point of saying there is NOTHING to prove anti vax points of view and tje person who came up with the MMR and autism lie had a vested interest in putting his own vaccije out there.

You take offense at someone inviting you to do your own research???

Reading crackpots off the internet is not doing double blind, peer reviewed research which gets published in medical journals. It is not doing research.

And yes, read this loonbag and be convinced is an irritating thing to say.

"Do your own research" is antivaxxer code for "look up all the conspiracy theories on the Internet, cherry pick the ones that confirm your bias, ignore anything from the scientific community"

Dont bother. Smile and move on.

Yep, no point in arguing.

It might make you feel better to read about the psychology of people who believe conspiracy theories given the big pharma comment because it's not specifically about the actual issue.

An anti vaxer mum at school told me to go educate myself! I am a medical ethics specialist who has worked with doctors for decades, she is a mum who refused to believe that her 2yos high fever was unrelated to his recent vaccination AND refused consent for a lumbar puncture to rule out meningitis. Can't argue with stupid.

"Big Pharma" makes fuck all money with established, off-patent vaccines like the ones we vaccinate our children with. The two single medication groups with which big pharma makes 90% of their money are anti-cholesterol drugs and, yes you guessed it, erectile dysfunction drugs.

So tell him that in order to fight big pharma he'd better vaccinate his children and stop taking all that viagra.

And yes, it is hilarious when a person with no education whatsoever who doesn't know what a cell or a gene are but can google things from their sofa tells someone with a PhD in molecular biology to "go educate yourself". Mate, I don't only know how vaccines work, I have MADE vaccines.

I usually wheel out my old mum (sorry mum!) whose life has been blighted by the polio she contracted in the 1940s. I invite them to hear some of her thoughts on this now preventable disease thanks to the work of that evil vaccinator Dr Jonas Salk- too late for her. They usually bugger off at that.

m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6596032

Or this heartbreaking letter Roald Dahl wrote on the subject after his seven year old daughter Olivia died from complications caused by measles. The BFG is dedicated to her memory.

The MMR creates autism guy made the whole thing up to sell separate vaccines. He didn't actually ever say don't vaccinate which is the biggest irony he said don't get mmr all in one because it "overloads the system and causes autism" I believe. It was debunked pretty fast but for some reason it persists. I don't believe the original bunch of bollocks is about now. The guy who wrote it lost his medical license and the study was revoked from publication. There is a good list of myths being busted here though.

The main issue I think is that autism diagnoses are rising and people are looking for something to blame. The fact is autism has always been fairly common but we had a huge lack of understanding in how it presents, especially in women.

People also don't realise how varied autism is. A huge percentage of us with it have normal regular lives. Many of us are married with kids and a lot of us have jobs. Yes we have challenges but autism also has some huge benefits. A lot of us are incredibly honest, very loyal and very focused.

We don't all wear labels and I've had so many people say "no, you can't be autistic" yes I can and I am it's just perception that's screwed.

Most recently studies show that they believe autism is present in newborn babies. It's now thought to develop in utero and may well be genetic since it seems to run through families. Yet more evidence that it has sod all to do with vaccines.

It's odd to think that educating yourself never involves taking the advice of the WHO, HSE, NHS, CDC ect into account.

Youngest DC was the only one for whom the combined maxi-vacc thing was available. He had a temperature and was quite listless for a couple of days afterwards. He also got a small hard lump on his precious little leg which took ages to go down.

On the other hand he never had measles, mumps, rubella, diphtheria, tetanus, whooping cough, polio, meningitis, Hib... Oh, or autism

I have a couple of acquaintances of FB who are massive conspiracy theorists, they both smoked a lot of and probably still do.

They are really anti fluoride too, government are poisoning the water so the evenly pharms can sell us the antidotes. Us sheep or sheeple are too blind and stupid to see it.

I remember choosing to vaccinate (MMR) when the 'controversy' about it was very much in the news. I was suspicious, at the time. But then when I looked into separate vaccines and saw they were unlicensed, here, at the time, that made me think all I can do is make the best choice I can. Whilst I thought some may build natural immunity, and survive, without vaccinating, everbody knows these diseases can kill. I thought that more of a risk, and that is what we were looking at minimising, than vaccinating when most are vaccinated safely.