Fracking

[Againstfracking]

Lancashire voted NO to Fracking but it's been forced on us by the Government. We don't want it! What can we do?

Sukey
There's about 5 different articles you can read yourself.
Just type in 'amount of land needed to solar power UK'
The Green Party has a really good video out at the moment all about it. It's a no brained really but needs investment and the will of the govt to do it. France has just decreed all new build roofs must have solar panels or plants on them... other countries are trying a heck of a lot harder than the U.K. We lag behind embarrassingly.

Thanks. OK, I did feel stupid there. Fair play.

Yes we do lag behind embarrassingly. There's always a reason, always an excuse.

How do the solar power proponents suggest the daytime energy can be stored, to be released over long cold winter nights?
The site of batteries needed would be enormous.

I think that's one of the major downsides of solar panels, especially in the UK. They don't generate enough energy when it is most needed - cold winters with short periods of daylight.

Perhaps solar panels are better suited to countries like Spain, with more reliable sunshine, slightly more consistent daylight length over the year and a bigger land area.

The tidal lagoon thing is interesting - I saw a news piece about the one in south Wales. It also looks like it will be a nice leisure facilty with walks and possibly interest from scuba divers etc from the wildlife attracted by the artificial reef.

Gladallover
I don't know.
But tesla are producing small batteries for home use and battery technology is advancing all the time.
It won't be long before they've cracked it. If you look at how we've advanced in even 2 years it's amazing and exciting.
I'm afraid your fossil fuels are dinosaurs now.. on their way out (albeit slowly) and really we all ought to be focussing on what's about to take their place. How can we make it happen? ... not keep on digging up their old bones and squeezing out every last drop (or bubble) of their toxic blood?

We just need the govt to back renewables properly and stop throwing money at their mates in the oil company lobbies.

If you look at how far electric cars have come in the last few years and how quickly the technology continues to develop, then solar panels will improve their efficiency too. It's inevitable.

I agree...
We really don't need fracking. Also why is it only offshoots like Cuadrilla etc and not major oil companies who want to frack?

Another survey says the public don't want it

drillordrop.com/2017/02/19/four-cheshire-surveys-find-%C2%BE-of-residents-oppose-fracking/

Solar in the UK is daft, it should be used in sunnier climes.
As said above, on-shore fracking in the UK is not new, only the horizontal drilling aspect.
What environmental damage does the mining for lithium, colbalt and graphite needed for the batteries? Or is it irrelevant as it will not be in the UK, so you can sleep easy as others suffer?

They have recently found very large deposits of lithium in Cornwall. As I understand it currently most of the world's lithium mining and extraction process is done in Bolivia using solar evaporation, a relatively benign process. However we don't have the space if the weather for that here.

Or the weather, not if the weather.

Caroldecker
I won't sleep easy. I'm horrified at what goes on in many places.
But apart from voting and protesting most people are pretty stymied re trying to stop/help/protect.
Where I can though I will.
It's always the default point from fossil fuel supporters.
I'm want to kill large populations of the planet to carry on with my luxurious lifestyle... really? 🙄

Half the world's cobalt comes from the Congo, where miners and the environment are very well treated.

LynB So what is the least damaging process? It is fracking in the UK. It is a similar argument with diesel cars and local pollution vs global warming.

Gladallover
I don't know.
But tesla are producing small batteries for home use and battery technology is advancing all the time.
It won't be long before they've cracked it.

I wish that was so. Batteries are fine for cars (providing there is a reliable source of electricity at the end of your journey). But the size of batteries is governed by pure physics and will always be out of proportion for HGV's.

Similarly batteries can run lights and TVs in the home, but don't think you'll be able to run an electric cooker. The alternative will be - gas?

And let's not get started on the demands of industry!

Don't get me wrong - it would be wonderful to get all our energy needs from renewable electricity. But it's not as simple as wishing it to be so.

Caroldecker
The answer is not Fracking.
Other countries have decided it's not their 'answer' too.
You are well informed enough to know that we could fill our gap with a mix of all that's been described below.
You can carry on promoting fracking as our holy grail of energy solving problems. I simply feel differently to you about it.
Maybe Fracking is one of those subjects like abortion politics and religion. You either do or don't.
I don't 'do' Fracking and I've read enough to make me believe that the UK doesn't have to 'do' it either.

Just because electric power isn't enough for HGVs and all our industry, is that a good reason not to use it for anything at all?

I mean to say... why would you allow this? Really?
They talk about it as though it's a perfectly reasonable thing to do!

earthquake.usgs.gov/research/induced/myths.php

lynB123

Plenty of IOCs carry out fracking worldwide - Exxon Mobil, Chevron, Shell, Conoco Philips for instance. BP offloaded its US fracking business. Total has invested in UK exploration licences. It's a business generally better suited to smaller operations though.

The idea that batteries will get much better any time soon is wishful thinking. The only component of the model T ford that is recognisable in a modern car is the battery. They have proven to be a technological dead end.

Just because electric power isn't enough for HGVs and all our industry, is that a good reason not to use it for anything at all?

Where did I ever suggest that?

Right, LynB... now I'm confused. The link you posted says that the majority of earthquakes were NOT caused by fracking, but by wastewater disposal. Given wastewater/ flowback disposal by injection isn't allowed in the UK, and the water causing the problem in the US is both flowback fluid from fracking and produced water from conventional oil/ gas fields.

It is accepted that fracking can, on rare occasions, cause earthquakes/ seismic events or whatever ( with the intensity limited to M3 or so in the UK for several boring geological reasons, I'm told) as they did at Preese Hall. At the time it was one of 2 or 3 such events in the world caused by the fracturing itself, which it has to be said is pretty unlucky for the first...

Now this has been raised as a possibility in the uk, the process is, rightly, subject to intensive monitoring and controls to limit intensity. But wastewater disposal is something totally different.

User147
I posted that article as an example of stuff that the Fracking industry thinks it's ok to get away with. There's other things like deicing roads with flowback waste etc...
the fact that they aren't 'supposed' to do it in the UK just means 'for now.'
That they are willing to do it in the first place and would were there not regulations stopping them... was the main point of the post. We are dealing with people who view the planet as a commodity to milk dry for personal gain.
Re the earthquakes - our geology must be different. 2 earthquakes - 1 frack. Not unlucky, just stupid. We knew it was stupid and still think it's stupid.

The USA have very lax standards of wastewater disposal. This is not a problem in the UK and never will be.
I do not understand the mentality of people who look at the experience in another country for all the bad and negative things and ignore all the positives. In the UK, we should aim to get all the positives and make sure we avoid any negatives.

Lollll undercrackers.
Oh yes let's try focus on the positives ... remind me?
And let's ignore any of the potential disasters that may happen.
Human error cannot be factored out. Nor can many other factors. The truth is that what's happening that deep underground is still a large unknown.
The horror stories in other countries are happening, right now and the local
Populations are helpless to do anything about it.
There's not been a single report that hasn't had to say 'with the correct regulations' etc.
It's absolutely crackers to even consider it.
Sorry. I can't agree with you and the only concrete positives I've managed to find so far have been the financial ones to the companies.
Fracking is stupid.

The USA have very cheap oil and gas, OPEC is on the ropes. The terrorist funding oil glut countries are on the back foot, and you can not see any positives ? I do not understand your mentality at all.
Do you get paid to find the cloud behind every silver lining ?