To think this parent is really grabby?

[MintLeafTea]

NC (is that you UCM) red rug/Titania/clay of cock.

My ds go to a local scout group. They run loads of events. Another parent used to go in and help out and she'd take photos for the newsletters and social media. She also used to e mail us digital photos.

She still helps out but in the newsletter there is a link and she is now selling all her photos.

AIBU to think she's only doing this to boost her business and I should tell her I want my children exempt from having their photos taken unless I can have copies (in lieu of modelling fees)

Sorry needle replying to the op. op was saying she personally didn't charge groups for her service when volunteering. I was pointing out that the scouts don't get charged for the photographers services only people who want pics of their kids. I don't understand why she can't see that.

But in this instance op, you have the vast majority of people telling you you are indeed being grabby.
Go back and reread the thread, listen and learn.

And the day will come when people wont do nice things anymore

Ok so imagine this, I am very talented at knitting. I start to knit hats for the children at the scout group and give them for free.

Then more and more hats.

Everyone is happy, I am happy.

Then it comes to a point where I can't knit anymore for free. Maybe it is taking too long, maybe the materials are expensive, maybe we are in debt, maybe I lost my job or DH is made redundant. Maybe I just want to but myself a new nutribullet. Whatever reason.

So I say sorry guys can't make hats anymore unless you pay me for it.

Is that wrong? Why?

You like the hat. Buy the hat. You cant afford the hat? Say thanks for the other 3 hats you got for free.

But to call me grabby after all that time of making free hats, then say any idiot can make them if you have some posh bamboo needles. Well, who is the grabby one here?

I can't believe you're going to put your kids through that just to spite a woman who won't do skilled professional work for you for free.

I agree with this. She offered a service for free then (either because she became established enough or because she realises your Scout parents were a PITA) decided to charge. You had no issue with your DC being photographed when you received the photos for free. Now that you have the option to pay (because that's what it is) you're unhappy.

Just leave it. Buy no photos, pop in once a year/term to photograph them if you want, and leave it be.

Personally, if I was that photographer, I'd offer one group shot for free, and then all the other individual photos for a fee to download or print (I'm a freelancer in another field and that strategy works for me). But she's doing nothing wrong IMO.

No OP you're the grabby one here

I'm Guide leader and while we take photos of the girls with photo consent we don't take requests. They're often used for displays in the hall

Your scout unit is lucky to have a professional photographer among its volunteers. While she is giving her time for free, she is no longer willing to provide photos for free, which is reasonable.

Either withdraw consent for photos or not. Buy the photos or not.

If enough parents withdraw consent that it makes her job too difficult she's not going to give you the photos for free she'll just stop taking them at all

Love the knitting analogy Blue

Wait, so she's giving the Scouts the photos for free - for their publicity? If that's true, she's still doing her charitable bit, and the organisation is benefiting from her expertise and skills.

It seems fair enough that she wants to charge parents if they want separate copies. If they are nice pictures, it's worth it and I imagine will be WAY cheaper than hiring a professional to give you similar quality pictures.

To hire my professional camera costs £178 per day, plus VAT plus memory card (high pixels so you would need a 32g card) that costs about £35 and a 32g CF card same price again. Possibly a flash gun if it's indoors (no idea how much one of those is to hire but mine cost £900.) so you are looking at in excess of £280 to hire it for one day. You would have to take and sell more than 56 great photos for £5 to break even!

There is no auto shoot on my camera, you have to set it up for different light, DOF, aperture for each location you want to take photos of (e.g., if they are standing in front of a dark background or a light one you have to reset even if the lighting is the same) I did a 2 year course because a photographer friend of a friend said I have 'a good eye' I had a cheaper camera back then, it took good photos. I did a 6 week course (online and 6 sessions with a tutor in various locations) when I bought my new camera as I couldn't take a decent photo with it! I now take 'brilliant' photos. The course cost me £350. I'm still 'learning' so I don't charge for a shoot, professionals charge between £250 and £600 for an hour, I will stay as long as it takes to get the children (I mainly do children/family shoots) comfortable with me around, playing games and getting to know them, I rarely unpack the camera in the first hour. I just charge for 5 any sizes prints they want and give them their 5 favourite photos on a memory stick to print for the family and they can buy more in batches of 8 for £5. (I usually end up taking between 600-1000 photos! I do try to whittle them down to around 200!)

You know nothing about me- I'm about as far removed from grabby as one can be. I used to regularly give all my time for nothing at events and clubs. I certainly didn't tell them they'd have to pay a fee for my services

And presumably she's not charging the scout group for photos that they use for newsletters etc.. She's charging the parents who previously were getting something from her for nothing.

I'm a cub leader. I spend many hours as a cub leader, giving my time for free. In fact, sometimes I'm out of pocket as I'll donate bits and bobs, craft things, items needed at pack meetings, for nothing.

I'm also self employed as a cake designer. I'll happily donate cakes for Scout fetes, school events etc. Not a problem. But should I then provide extra cakes for parents for nothing? Of course not.

As long as the photographer is still providing the service free to the scout group, then I don't think she's at all out of order to charge for the photos to parents (especially as she's doing it at a reduced cost)

Hmm I can't think as I've only been doing it the best part of 27 years

Yet you're baffled by, even bitter about, someone using a clear opportunity with demand for their services?

Right......

You're grabby because you still want this woman to volunteer at your child's scout group, still take photo's of your dc's, still upload them to a website, and still send them to you free of charge. You said it yourself - you want the pics, you just don't think you should pay anything for them. YOU are the grabby one!

You could see this the other way around, that you were extremely lucky a professional photographer was kind enough to take photos of your dc's and send them to you.

I think you'd be cutting off your nose to spite your face to announce that your children are not to be photographed. Also, you should explain why to your dc's as they might be a bit bewildered if the photographer is taking photos of everyone but them. But instead of spending a tenner here and there you can just buy an expensive camera, that'll teach her!

Bitter? I said it was slightly out of line I think.

Contact your District Commissioner or local Executive - there should be a link on your groups website or the national office can give you details. I suspect local exec wouldn't be happy especially if they don't know about this. It does raise safeguarding issues. let alone a god fact that members are there to develop and have fun with their peer group not to have someone waving a camera around for photo ops. If this was local to us our exec would want to know and I can't imagine they'd sanction it

Bluebell that analogy is not a good one.

She's there anyway with the group helping- it would take a lot of labour to knit one hat.

She uploads the photos to her website then that's it waits for the £££ to come rolling in.

I see not point in contributing any more to this thread. I will simply withdraw and hope other parents see sense.

I sometimes wish I was like you mint! AIBU- almost everyone- YES!! You IM STILL NOT YOURE ALL WRONG! Imagine living life like that, with such arrogance and self belief! I believe she won't "see sense" as I gather other parents don't mind!

She should be donating the proceeds to the scouts.

I get the impression it's because so many parents were asking for her service. Remember she has to earn a living.

1. The photos don't magically take themselves whilst she happens to be volunteering so there absolutely is labour involved.
2. The other parents have actively been requesting that she bring her camera so they already see sense.
3. The scouts already get all the photos and her services for free. She is only charging if parents want additional copies, which is more than fair. She is charging these at a lower rate so there wouldn't really be a great deal of 'proceeds'

Mint It doesn't matter that she is there anyway. It only takes a second to take a photo but there will be hours of her work on it when she gets home.

Bluebell that analogy is not a good one
I thought it was a beautiful analogy, everyone likes children in hats

She uploads the photos to her website then that's it waits for the £££ to come rolling in.

It's not just a case of uploading them. Most photographers say the hard work starts when the shots have been taken (editing etc).

I can see why this woman is loathe to give you any more free photos.

And it's not 'modelling' when the only one who wants the bloody pictures is you.

Now, seriously. I am a knitter and you will be surprised at how many people have asked me to make them seriouslycomplicated stuff that takes time and not even offer to pay for yarn. Why? Because they dont know how long it takes/ that yarn is expensive.

I think you dont know how much time and money it takes for the photography/ website and so on either.

She's not charging for going there though, she's offering the photos for the parents to buy IF THEY WANT TO

I think the issue comes from the amount the woman is charging.

Surely selecting, editing & uploading or printing a batch of photos does not cost £50 (If 5 parents buy a photo at £10, for instance). (And bear in mind most parents will take the electronic version anyway probably, further reducing the cost of the photos).

I doubt the OP would have as much of an issue if the woman was only charging a token amount or pricing accordingly to the situation - i.e. a general scout weekly meeting compared to their yearly awards ceremony or whatever - I know nothing about scouts/brownies etc.

Technically I don't think she should charge for something she volunteers for, in which case she could just take pics and do no editing/selecting etc and just upload the electronic version to her site for people to view & download - as that's not really any more work than attending the meetings anyway.

Although, I also don't think people shouldn't work for free and give away their time & expertise for nothing. What complicates this is the volunteering aspect of it and the fact that the woman is there anyway.

I think charging £10 is a bit of a piss take really, especially as its such a hike from the £0 she charged before. It seems to make it all about profit rather than just covering her time & expenses which as she's volunteering and its scouts, is all she should charge for imo.

Yes, do withdraw as you are clearly not interested in the answer to your question.