Why do I feel odd about this? Non biological parent and 'dads'

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

My DP is expecting our first baby. She got pregnant partly because I have a history of miscarriage, which is being investigated at the moment. So far there's no definite indications of why it happens, but some tests have come up positive and so they're continuing to check things out.

Obviously, we're thrilled about the baby and I honestly don't feel the tiniest bit that she isn't mine. In fact we both regularly forget she won't inherit anything genetic from me. However, I feel a bit odd about the mental 'boxes' people put me in. We just did NCT, and we had a lovely teacher who was falling over herself to be inclusive, and everyone else there was really nice and friendly. Now we've finished the classes we were encouraged to set up little facebook groups - a general one, one for dads and one for mums. Perhaps predictably, the general one is silent, there's one for mums which DP tells me is full of chatter, and as far as I know, there isn't one for dads at all because no one's set it up. Or, of course, they have and I just don't know. I could set it up myself, but I'm a bit nervous, firstly because I know someone in the same situation as me who had men complain they couldn't talk freely in front of her, and partly because ... and this is bad ... I just don't feel as if I have so much in common with the men. Rationally, I know we share a lot of common ground, and they're all nice, but I feel out of place. And obviously I don't fit with the mums either. And I feel oddly lonely.

I am not generally one for language policing and so my issue isn't that I mind people talking about 'the dads' and including me, or referring to me as 'honorary dad'. I can't quite put my finger on it, but I just don't feel as if I have the same experiences as them.

I am sure this will all fly out of my mind once the baby's born and I'll be far too busy and sleepless to think about anything so trivial. But can anyone sort of understand why I'm feeling out of place, and help me figure it out?

Shall - I don't think I agree. The classes themselves are more easily divided into 'birthing parent' and 'supporters' but actually most of the experience of NCT groups (which lets face it, is the social aspect after the classes) always felt more 'parents at home/with their babies all the time' and 'parents at work' (which in our group and I suspect many others split neatly into female/male categories)

Batteries it really is different for a non-bio parent - people even now ask 'which one is yours?' about my children. And before I got pregnant I was often asked when I would have a child when I was already a parent along with my wife - it was hurtful at the beginning but I got thick skinned quickly! It can be a strange situation which is why I recommended the book earlier as it is written by gay mums whose wife is or was the bio mum.
Impending parenthood has it's own stress but this is an added extra

OP I was in your situation last year - only female partner at our NCT course. I'm not in the mum's whatsapp group as it was originally more pregnancy support and now is about meeting up on maternity leave. But DW and I have got closer with a few of the girls particularly and now have our own little separate whatsapp group. I'm going on shared parental leave in 2 weeks and so will be meeting up with the girls while DW is back at work. It was weird at first not quite knowing where I fit (and feeling like DW was making friends that I wasn't) but by now it's irrelevant that I didn't give birth, we're all just mums with babies and are most in contact with the people we actually have most in common with (not going to lie, that's usually that we enjoy a bottle of wine together!)

Yes sorry Peach I do recognise that and wasn't trying to say it isn't different.

Firstly congratulations. I think as you will both be taking leave you should join the mums group. Yes there will be chatter about the body changes and the Labour but you'll be spending a lot of time with these women once the baby comes so starting the relationship with them now would be helpful. I can understand how tricky this might feel for you. If we had had a female couple in our NCT group then I would have excpected both women to join the mums group.

You are a mum to be and will be a mum. You don't need to BF to be mum (I didn't), you don't have to share DNA (we used an egg donor), you don't have to push a baby out either (planned c/s here). The pregnancy bit seems to last a liftetime when you are in that time and place but it's over so quickly and once the baby is here there will be no difference.

I can see why its tricky, and that neither group is quite 'right' for your individual circumstances.

Personally, I'd think the dads group is better. The mums one will be about giving birth, and the dads one about supporting those giving birth, as well as general parenting. Yes, you'll be a mum as well, but given you fall into the not-giving-birth parent category, sadly I think that puts you with the dads. It would be much better if they called it a 'Partners' group instead though - there are many instances where a biological father may not be the person at NCT, so its a bit of an innapropriate name really.

I'm pregnant, and my husband is likely to be looking after our child far more than me, staying at home, doing nursery runs later etc, whereas I'm more likely to return to work quicker. in terms of meet ups and child rearing, he'd be much better suited in the mums group, but he's not the one giving birth, so he can't.

Though saying all that, I don't think I'd mind if it was my group, and you joined with the mums.

I think it's pretty natural to feel upset at a situation where your excluded from a group of people you like who are discussing a forthcoming event you are excited about. Especially given what you say about miscarriage - presumably there's a frisson of, if not jealousy, at least 'what if?' and 'will this be me next time?'. You want to be part of it.

Also please feel free to ignore this if it is totally off the mark, but I wonder if this is triggering echoes of earlier experiences of not fitting into the 'right' heteronormative groups?

Obviously I don't know anything about your early dating history, but it's not hard to imagine that if you had trouble feeling excluded from, or a misfit in, female groups when you were growing up, it would be upsetting to encounter the same problem again in unexpected circumstances.

I would definitely get your DP to ask if you can join - I can't imagine anyone will mind - I certainly wouldn't. And those connections will be really useful once you get to the baby stage, which goes on much longer than pregnancy.

• you're not your

First off: Bear, I'm in south London. There are definitely plenty of lesbian mothers, including at my daughters' secondary school - and plenty of out teenage lesbians too.

Second, I'm slightly taken aback by the people who seem to think this is all terribly secret - hidden FB groups etc - this is 2017, ffs, lesbians can get married and all.

Now: LRD, no of course you're not overthinking. And your experience at the moment is crucially different from your partner's physical, visceral experience of pregnancy. I think it's other co-parents - not necessarily women - who will offer you that network and kinship you need.

My SIL describes herself as my nephews' "other parent". Other friends call themselves "mum". Maybe this is partly so loaded because we make motherhood - as opposed to parenthood - so ridiculously overloaded with sentimentality and significance?

I've nothing constructive to add, just wanted to say 'congratulations' to you both

Instead of asking if you can join the Mums' group, could your DP start a conversation on which group you best fit with? That you want to build friendships as you will likely be home longer with the baby, and may well be carrying in future. But that you don't want to muscle into the pregnant group if that isn't appropriate.

As a woman who has had pregnancies and might have wanted to talk about the gruesome bits with people who would understand, another woman would still be welcome in the conversation even though for me a man wouldn't.

If anyone had any concern, it might be your DP as she would lose the space where she can sound off about DPs who just don't understand!

Sorry ntft.

We had the same split in our groups and because we were all moaning about pregnancy stuff I guess we naturally didn't include the non-bio mom. It wasn't deliberate. Then it was all leaky boobs and maternity leave. Then back to work and its the bio mom who is part time so her we see so she tends to get all the messages.
Non bio mom isn't on fb but we've set up a wattsapp group to include her but it's mostly it's about meet ups and she's full time so we default to the fb group so she doesn't have to contend with all our random crap / moaning about DP
It isn't a deliberate missing you out, it's more not knowing what is best.

Haven't read all, but everyone I know has always joined the mums! If it helps think of it this way: would you exclude an adoptive mum or suggogate mother because they didn't share very experience? Or see them as less in anyway?

Pregnancy isn't what makes a mum. Many have done it and not been a mum. Care, love and responsibility makes one.

Sorry for earlier comment - in
My experience NCT is very Hetero normative and focussed on birth and BF - but from a social aspect and for play dates and shit I can completely see why OP would want to join the Mums group

I also think it's very nice that you are mindful to not make them feel uncomfortable - personally I don't think you will

Good luck 🍀

Perhaps DP could set up some kind of anonymous poll or ask someone discreetly so that nobody feels they "have to" say they feel comfortable if they don't. Or just make it very very clear that you won't feel offended if they say they aren't comfortable.

But I think I agree with the majority that yes you should be part of the group and that after the births of the children it will feel more natural for you to be there, so it might be better to wait.

On breastfeeding, you could always induce lactation you know

Just ask OP or get DP to but be prepared for a LOT of maternity leave waffle xx

BertieBotts OMG you just gave me a flashback to the most awkward 5 minutes of our lives, when our NCT teacher tried to suggest this to my OH in front of a room full of 18 people!

@LRDtheFeminist
I have very little to post in relation to your specific circumstances as I have no direct or indirect experience.

I am posting as I want to say congratulations though!!!

I've seen your username on here over the years as an intelligent and thoughtful poster, but had no idea of your personal circumstances or miscarriages and this is wonderful for you both.

Also, you are probably excluded by oversight or not knowing what to do, rather than by a decision made to exclude you. If that makes sense? Ask the group administrator to add you.

As others have said the pregnancy journey, although all consuming at the time, is a short part of parenthood. The actual birth is an even shorter part. Both of which will soon be over this time for you and your DP.
Once you move into the baby, toddler, and beyond years you'll be mum just as much as your DP. And from your posts you will both be as involved as each other.

All the very best.

Hi
Congratulations!
I completely understand why you would feel a bit unsure as to which group to join. From what I gather the 'mums' group is already set up but there isn't a 'dads/partners' one yet. Would it be an idea to set up a 'partners' one and also to set up a 'whole group' one. Then you could be in both, so as to have the support of the dads in how to support those who are giving birth. You can also have the social aspect of the whole group chat. Then once the babies are here and there is less chat about piles, stitches, cracked nipples & mastitis (amongst what people are having for dinner!) that may make you feel left out or awkward you could join the 'mums' group?
As other people have said once the babies are here it really does even out (although I realise I'm not in the same position as a hetero bio mum). You may find there becomes sub groups too of those who have most in common and/or those who are SAHP.
I just wanted to say you'll find your place/people and most importantly you and your DP will have your baby girl

My Dh is very open about feelings and happy to chat about everything especially when I'm trying to fall asleep! so as a straight bio-parent (right term?) I'll be basing lots of it on his explanations. In fact, we chatted about this thread over lunch.

I think parents who aren't carrying the children can easily feel left out. There's no movement inside them, no kicks, people are less likely to ask them about the baby etc. Of course they avoid the shit aspects of pregnancy but there is a disconnect. This continues after giving birth depending on maternity vs paternity* leave, breastfeeding and other things.

Father groups are more likely to be about becoming a parent and supporting the mother. Mother groups are more likely to be about becoming a parent and being pregnant / feeding / after effects etc.

Is there any reason you can't join both. I suspect the men will be happy to include you (99.99% of them aren't arseholes). Most aspects of your new life and experiences will be more similar to theirs. For your own reasons you want to be with the mother's group so join that too.

I think you're feeling out of place and out of sorts for 2 reasons. Firstly, you're overthinking everything because nothing makes the mind race like an upcoming birth. Secondly, because you kind of are. Your experience of waiting for the new baby are more like the fathers but you're naturally more inclined to be with the women.

I think you're in the perhaps enviable position of being able to flit between groups. Little insights into both worlds and I think you'll benefit from it.

As a woman who prefers the company of men and is usually in it, their little brains are much simpler than ours and if they like you as a person you'll be welcomed into the group, their world's are much more black and white, bless 'em!

Congrats, by the way.

*not quite applicable, but you get my drift.

I don't think it's the same as a bloke wanting to invade the women's space

[Hmm]

Although you are a mum, your experience is different from mums who are pregnant. At that stage the talk will be about pregnancy and the upcoming birth. Because when you have piles, are feeling exhausted or sick by the pregnancy, or scared about the upcoming birth, that is where your mind tends to focus.
Until the baby is born, your role is more like a dads i.e. to support your pregnant partner, and make preparations for the new baby coming.

Hi LRD I have been in exactly your position and found the best support from other lesbian parents, where about are you? I'm a member of two great lesbian mums groups with lots of current pregnancies and young babies. My own DS is still fairly young as well. The fact is that you won't feel like one of the dads because you aren't a dad and a lot of other mums don't realise that you are just as much a mum as they are even though you didn't give birth. The hardest bit for me was after DS was born reading all the newborn boards and all the comments from mums about how their partner couldn't love their child as much as them because of the pregnancy hormones and how dads shouldn't be trusted to co sleep with their babies because they don't have the same instincts etc. Sometime around when DS was a few months old it got better and we found that new people we met at baby groups etc couldn't tell who gave birth and usually didn't want to ask.
Not sure if there is a direct message thing in here but if there is you are welcome DM me if you want to talk.

Yes, brasty, I know that. That was why I started this thread, you see.

Thanks everyone for replies.

MI - I take your point about overloaded significances. Though, I think secret groups probably aren't to do with sexual orientation? I'm in a couple of feminist groups and they're secret simply because otherwise they're inundated with the sorts of idiots who think it's clever to troll a bunch of women. I bet you 'lesbian breastfeeding mums in Norwich' would be secret for the same reason!

pseudo - thanks, that's really thought-provoking. I don't think I am jealous exactly, but I suppose I'm aware I might feel differently about being the non-pregnant one, as compared with someone who never expected or wanted to be pregnant. I doubt the fitting into groups otherwise is an issue. For years I was married to a man and most of my adult relationships have been with men.

bear - OMG, ouch! We did not have that experience. Blimey.

chasing - thank you! That's really kind. And we are really thrilled and I do feel so very lucky.

This thread has been so helpful in reminding me that I shouldn't assume what happens in this very short space of time will set patterns for later stages.

antna - thanks! And yes, I might - I guess I just feel if I set up the partners group, the men might feel they can't talk about some things in front of me, and I might, well, set it up and go a bit silent! But I'm probably being daft really.

wet - oh, absolutely, it's definitely not about me turning my nose up at the men and thinking they're arseholes. They all seem really nice. Just different experiences.

I think join the "mum's" group. I guess the men just aren't interested in hearing about the details of the pregnancy, discussing episiotomies, breastfeeding, etc. and the women might not feel comfortable discussing this with other people's partners involved, but I think their experience is the lesser because of it! Your role will be as support for your DP, birthing partner, etc. so why wouldn't you want all the details?

Btw the day after my first nephew was born my SIL met some friends (she and DSis weren't living together at this point) and one of them said "we must drink to SIL's new baby".

A friend who didn't know the setup (see above; it was a quite new relationship) looked at SIL agog with admiration and said "wow, you're well hard round here".