Why do I feel odd about this? Non biological parent and 'dads'

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

My DP is expecting our first baby. She got pregnant partly because I have a history of miscarriage, which is being investigated at the moment. So far there's no definite indications of why it happens, but some tests have come up positive and so they're continuing to check things out.

Obviously, we're thrilled about the baby and I honestly don't feel the tiniest bit that she isn't mine. In fact we both regularly forget she won't inherit anything genetic from me. However, I feel a bit odd about the mental 'boxes' people put me in. We just did NCT, and we had a lovely teacher who was falling over herself to be inclusive, and everyone else there was really nice and friendly. Now we've finished the classes we were encouraged to set up little facebook groups - a general one, one for dads and one for mums. Perhaps predictably, the general one is silent, there's one for mums which DP tells me is full of chatter, and as far as I know, there isn't one for dads at all because no one's set it up. Or, of course, they have and I just don't know. I could set it up myself, but I'm a bit nervous, firstly because I know someone in the same situation as me who had men complain they couldn't talk freely in front of her, and partly because ... and this is bad ... I just don't feel as if I have so much in common with the men. Rationally, I know we share a lot of common ground, and they're all nice, but I feel out of place. And obviously I don't fit with the mums either. And I feel oddly lonely.

I am not generally one for language policing and so my issue isn't that I mind people talking about 'the dads' and including me, or referring to me as 'honorary dad'. I can't quite put my finger on it, but I just don't feel as if I have the same experiences as them.

I am sure this will all fly out of my mind once the baby's born and I'll be far too busy and sleepless to think about anything so trivial. But can anyone sort of understand why I'm feeling out of place, and help me figure it out?

I don't generally pretend my experiences are just like others (perhaps you do?), so I am well aware it wouldn't be true to pretend they were.

Another one here saying you're absolutely not overthinking this. How would you not feel odd in a group where you're the only one in your situation, i.e. not pregnant and not a man?

I'd imagine the mums would be happy to have you be part of their group. Seems incredibly shitty for you to be stuck on your own when you want to be involved.

I don't think Lrd is pretending anything she is looking for a bit of support from other partners that is all. Being pregnant is just 9 months of parenthood

I would ask your dp to contact the admin of the mums group and explain the situation. You are going to be a mum not a dad. I'm sure you would understand much more about itchy nipples and a sore vajayjay than the men would. The women will be happy to have you I'm sure. Wouldn't surprise me if the men talk more about football, going back to work and hormonal women.

LRDtheFeministDragon I am glad the thread is making you feel better.

You've asked a few times how not to dwell on things. I think only you can know what will make you be better able to not over think things.

I tend to make a decisive decision not to dwell on something (especially something I cannot alter) and especially if it is something that I find my mind wandering back to!

If you feel you do need to give this 'issue' of your place in things some head space decide to do this on a limited basis, e.g. when making dinner in the evening, or just after lunch, etc, a set time to 'indulge' these thoughts or look up stuff on line, or perhaps only one evening a week - or maybe after a group or before it.

I might make a decisive decision to think about something else at all other times; or better still do something else (make a cuppa, send an email, read a book, clean something, do some work) to get that thought out of my head.

You might find purposefully clearing your head of these thoughts works and when it comes to the time to start thinking it all through again, the time you have given yourself 'permission' to mull it over, that at your designated time you realize it is not necessary!

You naturally fit into the mums group, just as I do with dd, who is my birth daughter, and ds who is my son by adoption. But if we were all talking birth stories, sore nipples and C-sections I would have nothing to add about the arrival of my son into this world! This may make me feel left out, so it is you who need to make sure you feel comfortable with the level of sharing and if not, to remove yourself from the group, perhaps temporarily.

At the very start I may have found this hard, hearing about births and pregnancy. But now, three years into parenting him (almost) it doesn't bother me a jot that he didn't take up residence in my uterus for 9 months.

So I would ask your dp to see if you can join the mum's group, make it maybe a trial and if you don't like it, you can leave. In the meantime

I'd encourage you and your dp to make the general group more active. Is it an online group? Is so, post some articles about parenting, birth etc from different perspectives and try and engage others.

Articles about which baby carrier or sling to use, prams, cots, safety for baby, etc, are important to both parents so as long as it is not all pictures of sore nipples etc you may find some of the others start engaging.

Good luck.

Thanks.

I'm really not trying to pretend. And I really am conscious that they might feel uncomfortable. The last thing I would want to do would be to put people in a situation where they might feel 'oh ... now I have to say I'm ok with this or I will sound homophobic, but actually I'm not ok with it and I don't feel comfortable any more'.

I have spent far too much time pondering the rights and wrongs of conflicting group interests not to think that.

At the same time it is very helpful to be able to post on MN and think things through - and to focus, now, on what it might be like after DD's here, which sounds as if it might be the sensible time to be a bit more friendly with the mums.

Congratulations LRD such wonderful news.
Another vote for the mums group, the PG stage is short and will be useful to you for the future. Once baby is here it will all be much of a muchness anyway and you will have your network. All the very best

I think the problem here is the gender separation in the first place. As a PP said, just one FB group for the whole ante natal class should be just peachy. I'm a hetero lone parent, and years later am still being railroaded into "mummy" group outings where you talk about kids, while the "daddies" get go out and drink all the beer and talk about the fun things like power tools. This kind of ghettoisation really boils my piss . Considering you've all been through an antenatal class together, surely the blokes can cope with a bit of piles and perineum chat without fainting? .

Re: the whole 'your experience will be different' thing - bloody hell, I don't think it's too much to ask to feel included in the NCT group that's local to you and that you've paid for and participated in. We don't all have to have the same experiences in order to get along. OP, you sound really thoughtful and lovely and from the tone of your posts I can't imagine your making the group difficult or uncomfortable for anyone (or at least any more difficult or uncomfortable than antenatal groups normally are, in my experience!). Congrats & best of luck.

It's hard not to overthink when having a baby by donor conception. The very nature of it requires that you do.

What a snide post, brasty. I see no evidence whatsoever that LRD is pretending anything at all, she would just like, understandably, a bit of support during her partner's pregnancy and when the baby is new and to not feel like an anomaly as an expectant mother who is not carrying the baby.

Congratulations, LRD. Don't let anyone tell you you are 'overthinking' anything. We saw this up close with friends of ours when they finally had a successful pregnancy, having 'switched' to the other partner carrying the baby after the partner who was desperate to be the biological mother had several miscarriages and one pregnancy that ended, heartbreakingly, just before it would have been classified as a stillbirth.

Despite being a total stoic, she found her wife's pregnancy difficult, not surprisingly, and their daughter was born in the same unit where her son had died, which brought back all kinds of sadnesses. Things were more than a bit wobbly until her wife returned to work and circumstances meant she was doing most of the childcare, and she is now a blissed out, fully equal co-mother with a huge circle.

Which doesn't help you with your situation, I realise. They are in London, had more lesbian mothers in their circle anyway, and didn't do NCT. If it's any consolation, I loathed the entire NCT experience, felt deeply anomalous throughout the gatherings, and drifted away from the group after the first few months. Despite being straight and the fact they were all perfectly nice their 'boxes' weren't anything I could easily fit into. Regardless of the NCT, you should definitely have a place where you can offload your feelings.

Very best wishes to you and your partner.

You're a mummy! Congrats. I adopted my son and so was never pregnant, but I am part of an NCT group.

And I'd have been delighted to have you in the mother's group in my NCT days. I used to feel a bit weird about the gender-segregated meet-ups, anyway. They reminded me of those rather depressing-looking couples you see on 'double date' nights out where the two men are walking ahead talking about football, and the two women are ten feet behind with their handbags on their arms trying to keep up in high heels.

Totally understand why you feel the way you do, OP. But to me, mum means female parent, rather than 'person who gave birth'. Some of the stuff they'll be chatting about on the FB group will be birth-related, but most of it will be other stuff about welcoming a baby into your life. Either way, there's no reason you shouldn't be part of it!

Good luck with everything.... we had a lesbian couple in our NCT group. WhatsApp hadn't quite taken off at that point but nowadays the five NCT mums and lesbian mums wife are among my very best friends. LMW is on our WhatsApp group (dads have a separate one) and we all socialise together in various permutations. In fact LMW and I have set up a boom club together and are going away on hols without original lesbian mum.... it's basically completely irrelevant now which of them gave birth. For the first year or so whilst LM was on mat leave we didn't really get to know LMW.... it was a slow burn but six years later we are all best friends and there is no distinction. Just our experience. You'll find your place/people. Personally I would join both groups as you have a place both as an almost mum and in the supporting role.... if one group starts to feel uncomfortable then just leave. You won't have been invited because people won't be quite sure what you'd prefer. Xx

I'd have presumed mum and don't think it would've bothered me you being there. But I do see why previous fertility issues might make you have particular feelings in the mum groups, even more so than most non-gestational lesbian mums. I don't think you're overthinking or self-indulgent. You're a minority of a minority. Hardly unknown for people in that position to find things a bit difficult.

The only fly in the ointment in our particular set up was that original lesbian mum felt it difficult to carve individual time/role /friendships for herself away from her wife. It was all mashed up and mixed together. Does DP need a space to whinge about how crap you are (you won't be, needless to say, but she might still need a whinge! ). I'm sure you've thought about it but just in case. Best of luck z

Join the mums group. You're a mum - a female parent. At the moment a lot of the mums group will be about pregnancy niggles and body changes, but once the babies are born it will be all about the babies and motherhood. Not everyone will be breastfeeding either.

DW and I were in NCT, all other couples were M/F. I was pregnant; she is the biological mum, although I don't think that makes our situation any different. We didn't have separate Facebook groups, we just had one which mums and dads freely chatted on. It's gone a bit quiet now 2 and a half years later but things are still posted occasionally, and some of us see each other from time to time too. I thing the separation was a mistake, tbh. There's no reason for you not tone included, or any of the dads - once the babies are here you'll all be in the same boat!

Oh, and honestly, once baby is born you won't think about "mum" and "dad" roles. Every family is different, and you will settle into the routines that work for you. I've actually found it quite liberating to be free from the gender expectations. We are both our son's mum and our family works for us.

Congratulations!

LRD that would be great! We really need to make more effort to find local lesbo parents.

Hilariously my OH is about the most 'heteronormative' other parent ever. She hates the thought of being pregnant, took exactly 2 weeks of leave after the birth and we have very
m/f domestic roles. The dads actively take the piss out of her for it as half of them would be stay at home dads given the choice.

Really hope it works out for you with the NCT crowd, but remember also there are loads of other ways to meet local parents xx

@nordicmom thank you for sharing your experience about gestational surrogacy

If my next IVF cycle ends in another miscarriage we will have to accept I can't carry and move on to surrogacy - I was wondering how it might work in terms of being able to join in with the new mum antenatal type groups, as all my friends with young babies depend on their NCT network. So I was wondering if intended parents of a baby to be born via gestational surrogacy would be able to join. Even if I wouldn't experience pregnancy, we'd both be attending a hypothetical birth so knowing how to support someone through labour would be valuable in itself

Massively projecting as we haven't reached the end of our journey yet, but it's been preying on my mind how I would be considered a mum even if I hadn't carried our baby. So thank you.

Is your baby due soon Lrd

NCT groups are for a shared experience and OP isn't sharing the experience of being pregnant so the group might not feel the right fit for her or for those involved.

But... I think it's worth bearing in mind that women are more active and interested in joining groups than men tend to be. (That's a cultural nurture thing, not a nature one, IMO). So the women's group may be filled with active chat about more than pregnancy.

I think OP should say clearly once to another member of the group that she'd love to join the online group but only if everyone was comfortable with having a non pregnant mum-to-be there (avoiding any suggestion that there's any other reason she might not be welcome) and then see what happens.

In practical terms there is bound to be some chat in the early days you can't fully participate in. Our NCT group was also often a safe olace for a bit of a rant about unsupportive partners who didn't "get it" (how knackered and emotional you are, competitive tiredness etc). To be honest I didn't like the "them and us"mentality although there were times I felt that 'H doesn't get it" too.

Thanks all.

banana, I'm so sorry to hear you're struggling.

If it helps, I do absolutely feel like DD's mum, even though I haven't carried her. I think because I've done the whole thing of preparing for her, and thinking about her, I just do feel that way. I don't know that that helps because it is different, of course. But maybe it's useful to know.

bear - I can imagine that scenario! DP and I are, unfortunately, more likely to tussle over who gets to stay home. But amicably, I think.

cold - thanks, that's really useful. And yes, I can't imagine we'll do 'mum' and 'dad' roles - it just doesn't feel natural or likely.

bee - that is a really good point. At the moment she says not - she's not a big talker in these situations anyway, so it's usually me being the outgoing one who chats away, anyway. I think if she wanted to share woes, she would talk to me, even if it meant whinging.