To be shm after children are at school

[Notthinkingclearly]

I have 2 dc who are 6 and 9. Since my first child was born i have been a stay at home mum. My DH works away alot abroad so I am often on my own. My Dc's have not been the most robust and have both had quite a few weeks off school with legitimate reasons over the last few years with hospital appointments. I have felt that if I had been at work I would have been a rubbish employee. I seem to be really busy all the time but feel I am constantly justifying to everyone why I don't have a job. I look after a relations 2 year old one day a week, help in school one day a week and I am a member of the schools PTA. I don't go out apart from supermarket or a walk during the week and only ever sit down to eat my lunch during the day. Am I as spoilt and lazy as I am made to feel?

Hi,Elektra.i imagine you'd need Leave and/or carer leave for appts
I'm not HR so can't can't globally advise.what policies are currently in place
Can you request that the clinic/hospital offer you early appts to accommodate work - get supporting letter from your work
Keep copies of appt letter to demonstrate the need to your employer

Good Luck ,I'd expect a reasonable employer to accommodate the appts

Childminders and wraparound school clubs make it a lot more feasible to work now than 30 years ago. The childcare didn't really exist then. Some sahms I know bang on about how essential it is that they take their own children to school. We have a lovely childminder who looks after my daughter from 7am-6pm 2 days a week whilst I work. I also take my son to nursery so we leave the house at 6.45am. But 3 days a week I do the school run, look after 3 year old and do activities with them aftr school. It's a compromise - the early mornings on work days are rubbish but I'm lucky not to have to do it every day. I'd hate to be a sahm as I'd get bored. My earnings pay for a cleaner, contribution to bills and mortgage and a few treats. Some days are stressful and my son has had multiple overnight stays in hospital but we got through it. I couldn't do full time though.

This thread has actually made me realise how incredibly lucky I am - to have an interesting job that I genuinely enjoy, working with people who I like and respect, and that is super flexible to fit around around my family. It has also helped me to realise that it is also quite unusual to have a highly paid job that doesn't carry a regular expectation of long or anti social hours/frequent travel, and that requires virtually no commute. And finally it has reminded me that I'm also incredibly lucky to have a DH who shares the household chores, alongside willing parents nearby who always help but never interfere, and a community of lovely working mums who help each other out as and when required. Not to mention a child who is in good health and rarely needs time off school.

It has made me count my blessings, so for that, I thank you OP. I have been quite low recently, so it's good to reflect on how lucky I am in reality.

The thread has also highlighted quite clearly for me the obvious fact that lots of people have to contend with very different circumstances. Some have to work incredibly long hours in order to earn a good wage, with travel expected at the drop of a hat and family life expected to take a back seat. Some have long commutes and inflexible jobs where you cannot do the school run or just tell your boss that you'll work from home if dc is sick. Some have no family help at all, and if they chose to work would have to rely on expensive childcare that they can't afford or that might not really be of the quality that they desire. Others have DHs who refuse to pull their weight at home regardless of how many hours their wives work. And some have disabled children who need the kind of care and attention that cannot simply be paid for.

So many different challenges to contend with. And so many different experiences that shape our values and priorities. Really, we can each only speak for what works best in our own situations. There is no point in passing comment or judgement on what other people choose to do. Their choices will not be based on the same set of circumstances, and so it's meaningless to compare. And if their choices are different from our own, that does not reflect negatively on what we ourselves have decided to do.

There are some very nasty comments on this thread from both wohps and sahps. I enjoy a good debate and it's an interesting topic on which I do have strong views, but I don't know why it has to descend into such unpleasant sniping about other people's lives. Life's too short for that, and ultimately, we're all just doing whatever seems to work best for our own families at any given point in time and in our own particular circumstances.

Brokenbiscuit- agree with you 100%. I know MN can be very judgy, but I have been amazed by some of the comments. It's a hugely emotive subject, but each family needs to do what works best for them. I have been a SAHM, worked full time crazy hours and worked part time (as I do now). Neither of the three scenarios are perfect. There is no 'right' way.

Brokenbiscuit

What a lovely post brokenbiscuit.

Some posters may not be fully aware of parental legal rights, and that employers can't just sack you for taking time off to care for sick children or take them to hospital appointments. Most parents I know use their annual leave, but there is the option of unpaid leave. Most corporates are well used to staff who are also parents with home lives too!

I agree and you are absolutely right, brokenbiscuit. I was coming back to have a bitch a moan to Wizard and now I don't have to because you've put it so artculately. Thank you.

I think Wizard must have disappeared in a cloud of smoke after her head stopped spinning.

Here here biscuits

Thank you biscuits this thread definitely needed some more compassion and positivity.

I think what would be more useful (and what I had been hoping for when I clicked on this thread) rather than people bitching, is a practical positive discussion about being your choices when you are a SAHM and your children go school. I had really hoped for some support and advice from other mums (that is what I am on Mumsnet for after all). I have been mulling this over and come up with a load of points:
First - before you do anything else, check your financial situation will cover you for the future and any unforeseen circumstances; this is not being money-grabbing but you need to protect your children. (I know lots of you have said you have financial arrangements in place already but not everyone does) So check pension arrangements (if you are not married make sure your spouse has nominated you, this was in the news recently); check your NI contributions are sufficient for state pension; get life insurance cover; both make a will. (Any others I haven't thought of?)

Second - when you have been a SAHM the idea of going for job interviews and back to the workplace can be daunting. Maybe some tips or links from those who have done this would be helpful?

Third - finding jobs that are flexible around school hours. Often it may not be that mums don't want to work but that they don't know how to find the right job, and if your experience of working pre-children is in an inflexible long-hours environment then its hard to know what alternatives are available. What about alternatives to office-based jobs? Having spent years working in an office pre-children, the idea of going back to one does not fill me with joy, personally I would want to find a non-office based role but I am not sure what. What about setting up your own business, does this really work?

Four - having children with health issues seems to be a really common reason for mums to stay at home. I think when you have a healthy child it can be hard to imagine the day-to-day issues of a child with health problems (I have one of each so I know!); but as has been pointed out to be me, I assumed it would be difficult to take time off for appointments but there are parental rights for this kind of thing. (But would you have to disclose it at a job interview, for example?) Speaking personally, I feel bad enough that my child has health issues (all the usual mummy guilt, was it something I did when I was pregnant etc) and want to do my utmost to ensure my child grows up to be as capable and independent as possible, as I am aware I won't be around for ever to help them. So you focus on that, and its hard to see how you can work a job around that, especially if you don't have any family nearby to help out.

Five - different personalities - personally I just couldn't imagine holding down a highly-paid career now as well as looking after the family. But other people obviously do it. So then I think, maybe I just don't have it in me, maybe I am just not that sort of person?
Six - primary schools have lots of childcare provisions available but what about secondary? What are the different issues? Are teenagers OK to be at home by themselves?
Seven - So if you have looked at the overall picture, taking all of it into account, you do decide it is best for everybody want to carry being a SAHM, then what plans do you need to put in place long term? What about when the children leave home?

This are just some of the issues that have been going round and round in my head, I feel it would be far more constructive to focus on these rather than the 'rights or wrongs' of being a working/stay at home mum. Please don't ridicule or pull apart my post, because I have put it here in good faith, and I am not trying to make any judgements on anyone else.

Thank you, electrical. You make a lot of sense. This is something I mull over all the time so no pulling apart from me

One of my friends had a career as a lawyer. Her husband had a job which took him abroad for weeks at a time. When they had dc she gave up her career in order to be around for them. She got a pt job as a teaching assistant in order to fit in with school etc as her dh couldn't do school pick ups etc.

By the time her dc became teenagers and she didn't need to fit around them so much, she had been out of law for 15 years so couldn't restart her career.

Then her dc left for university and her dh left her. She was in her mid 50s. She's been left with very little, she has no career and a very small income from.the TA job. She's had to sell the house.

I just would never want to put myself in that position.

Coming late to the thread and dipping in for the usual MN flaming.

I think brokenbiscuits post is lovely, and just about sums it all up.

One shouldn't have to ask, or be made to feel that you have to ask OP whether you "are spoilt and lazy" for your very valid choices. At the end of the day, it's all a question of balancing and making the best choices for your circumstances. It certainly sounds like you are very busy, and engaged in worthwhile, if you'll forgive me the value judgment, albeit non monetary activities.

Sadly, there are only so many hours in the day, so if you did go back to wok, something would have to "give". On the other hand, there would, no doubt also be some benefits. Only you can decided what is right for you. Maybe working on something that could increase your self-esteem, or ways to deflect the SAHM guilt trip?

Some of the comments on this thread are really sad, and Wizard it's not all about money. In answer to your question, when a SAHP buys the working partner a present, it really is the thought that matters. Although I guess if you look at it in economic terms, the "non-working" partner is giving up their time, career opportunities, which must have some value, even in your reductionist world view.

Thank you for the thread, it has made me count my blessings. (I'm one of the rarities working part-time at home, badly balancing the need to make some money with surfing MN and stuffing my face with biscuits). Each to their own, we all find "meaning" in our own way, and, hopefully, for the most part, can do so without attacking others' choices.

What if you just can't cope with a full-time career now because of the other things going on like right now? What then? What happens if this desired career pushes you over the edge and sends you into a full-blown mental health breakdown? That is how it is for some people if they have too many other stresses in their life.

gandalf

Not the mh issues for me, but I just didn't want my career after having dc.
There was nothing else I wanted to do but devote my time to my family.
I had been a hr tax payer from 18 years old as earned an absolute fortune from my business.
I just didn't want to do it anymore.
The mh issues came into it when I tried to leave ds1 to go to a job he was about 1 iirc.
The panic attacks and heart wrenching was too much and I couldn't do it.
I have seen psychologists who explained/ helped me see why this was.
So, I devoted my life to my family and couldn't have been happier.
Everyone is different though, it would drive others mad to have to be a sahp.

I'm 50 btw, and this year we celebrate our 25th wedding anniversary, so far so good
I know it's not like that for everyone though.
I'm dh secretary when I can be bothered, so no fear of him running off with secretary.

The problem is so few careers are really family friendly and the long hours culture is prevalent in the commercial world so industries that service that world (law/accountancy) feel the need to be available in those hours so are family unfriendly.

Then you have the fields that are family unfriendly by their nature (medicine, emergency services) but could be better (nhs rota system, training jobs requiring junior drs to move around a huge area etc). Fixed rotas would help a lot - planning work around a non-fixed rota where you can't work the same days from one week to the next is very difficult. Live in childcare is not affordable for many on these professions at the point where they are most likely to need it!

The same issues apply to shift workers...

Realistically a family can only sustain one full time non-family friendly job without live in childcare, which is both an economic problem and a choice that some wouldn't want regardless.

I suspect the question arises more often fir middle class professional types because they are more likely to have had children slightly older making grandparents less likely to be physically capable of doing any childcare for a younger child and probably getting closer to needing more help themselves!

gandalf456 then you dp what you gotta do and the likes of wizard can shove it up their sneering noses!

Random- yes that's the case for me, my parents had me relatively late, and I was in my 30s when I had children, so they are elderly and not physically capable of doing childcare. My dad is quite frail (years of manual labour taken their toll) and my mum can manage very occasional babysitting for a couple of hours, but that's it. My MIL is no longer alive. I see my friends parents taking their children for weekends, half terms etc and have to admit to being jealous!

Do we not as grown women having children have responsibility to look into this or accept the consequences?
I can't work with DS, and I understand what pur options would be if he ran off or died. Like many people who are utterly working class the only option is tp suck of up and deal if it happens or not to have kids. If sucking it up isn't an acceptable option ypi get into the realms of pny certain types of people being socially acceptable as parents.
Yes I agree you should support your own which is why DH works a.ongst other reasons but the welfare state is there because they relalised people needed help

It's your life, so long as you and your family are happy then it is nobody elses business.

Apparenyly I can neither work nor type

babybarrister That's a good point - and it is something that should be taught, somehow, somewhere. This will probably be somewhat controversial, but I think we should be able to have a similarly grown up debate about the pros and cons of different childcare options. Because it seems to me that that is a bit of a no-go area because it is neither popular nor politically expedient. What are the different outcomes (educational, psychological, developmental) associated with children who have been cared for by a nanny versus a SAHM versus a SAHD versus a grandparent versus a nursery? It can't be the most sophisticated research project to undertake.

It wouldn't have to be prescriptive in any way as, I suspect, like most things in life, there are pros and cons to each approach. There isn't ever going to be a "one size fits all" - but it'd be bloody helpful to understand some of the parameters.

When my first child was a baby, I went to the clinic and was waiting to speak to the health visitor. The first mother was asking about breast feeding and was (I felt) overwhelmed by the barrage of facts and data thrust at her. The second was asking when might be the best time for her to go back to work. "Oh, whenever you like" was the firm, but breezy response. It struck me then that that lady would obviously have liked some help with that decision. Not someone telling her what to do, but someone able to point her in the direction of some facts or some research which could help her and her partner make an informed decision for their family.

You see threads on here all the time - SAHP or WOHP? Childminder or nursery? Granny or nursery? Nanny or childminder? I think all of us, whatever we do, have been failed by a lack of data.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/oct/02/nurseries-childcare-pre-school-cortisol

One quick google, top article. There will be a ton of research and it'll all be contradictory