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AIBU?

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Original poster

To ask scots if they actually like Nicola sturgeon

917 replies

Karen85 · 03/02/2017 13:24

Just out of curiosity really because she and her voice make me cringe when i hear her on tv or radio.

Love scots though please don't get me wrong.

OP posts:
StatisticallyChallenged · 04/02/2017 23:51

Oh goody, indyref bingo "people voted no because of project fear, biased media and the vow"

Bugger right off

Personally I researched the shit out of it, read the white paper (a.k.a. the white wish list, cos that's what it was), analysed the economics, read a truckload (and have a background in finance and economics so was well equipped to understand it), largely ignored what all the political parties were made and came to a very carefully considered decision.

If we're going to start on stereotypes of voters it would be easy to point to the inaccurate and frequently racist spoutings of Wings over Scotland (I had him and supporters threatening me on twitter), but that would be tarring everyone with the same brush.

If you want to try and win people round to independence the first thing you need to do is to accept that the case put forward by the SNP/Yes campaign wasn't good enough. Period. Focus on the inadequacies, falsehood, lies and holes in that campaign and fix them. Maybe in doing so an actual workable strategy for independence could be created...you know, one with a currency, perhaps?

Flowerydems · 05/02/2017 00:10

I think her morals are good and bad think she gets a hard time in the press.

I really like her, she's a strong woman and I think that's what pisses people off

Calyx72 · 05/02/2017 00:16

Statistically that's the premise of the yes2 campaign as I understand it. Cross party and looking to improve on those arguments

YourOtherLeft · 05/02/2017 00:19

As powerful politicians go, she's definitely one of the least worst.

StatisticallyChallenged · 05/02/2017 00:28

It's not just improving the arguments, the fundamental answers and solutions need to change.

Folk accuse no voters of banging on about currency but the reason for that was that it was a relatively easy example which demonstrated the incredible naivety and recklessness at the heart of the campaign. If you can't give a sensible answer to that - and they couldn't, it was shambolic- then what else was nonsense. The answer, whether you are ideologically pro indy or not, is that there were a huge number of holes and not enough accurate facts and analysis. And a lot of lies which were easily disproved

Don't start from "how can we convince people this is a good idea", start from "how would we actually make this work" and come up with answers that don't depend on other countries doing what you want them to when they've already said no (currency and eu for starters).

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 05/02/2017 01:35

I'm so pleased to see you here StatisticallyChallenged

The most inappropriate username on MN and in complete command of statistics!

trixymalixy · 05/02/2017 08:23

I've read some of the common weal indyref2 white paper and its as fanciful as the first indyref white paper.

I also noticed that at the yes conference they upped the quite honestly ludicrous estimate of £200m cost of setting up a new country to £18bn. It was obvious at the time that that was not realistic. But it was defended by the SNP and then they wonder why they lost.

They clearly think the Scottish electorate are stupid. Unfortunately for them we are not.

Indyref and brexit are two cheeks of the same arse. Lies lies and more lies. Promising unicorns and rainbows that can never be delivered.

dementedma · 05/02/2017 09:20

Re Trident. The complex at Faslane provides large number of jobs in an area where there is little else. The entire submarine fleet is being relocated to the Clyde by 2020, bringing a huge number of people to the area. A friend is a private landlord/builder there and his company is expanding and taking on staff to cope with demand. Trident has advantages as well so disadvantages.

LunaLoveg00d · 05/02/2017 09:57

Scotland rejected independence after project fear and biased media and 'the vow

This is SO insulting to those os us who voted no. SNP sheeple like to make out we're stupid, couldn't see the facts, were scared, intimidated, that the BBC was totally biased.

All bollocks. Everyone who voted no had their own reasons for doing so, many of which were around the economy, oil prices, and actually being quite happy to be part of the UK. It's really quite sad that almost three fecking years on from the referendum the cybernats can't let it go and are still looking for reasons for their loss.

SaorAlbaGuBrath · 05/02/2017 10:27

Luna you are absolutely right that everyone who voted in the Indy ref did so for their own reasons, but there are many who voted no because it was pitched as the only way to remain in the EU, and leaving would be catastrophic. I know of many people (yes and no voters) who have changed their mind since because more information has become available.

titsbumfannythelot · 05/02/2017 10:27

Totally agree Luna. I know a few yes voters who virtually sneered at people who voted no. Utterly contemptible behaviour.

lemondropcake · 05/02/2017 10:45

I'm a Scot. I hate her. Preaches about doing what the Scottish people want - but she only works to fuel what she wants. Won't listen or accept it unless it's what she wants to hear.

fleuricle · 05/02/2017 10:49

"IndyRef 2 and Brexit are indeed two cheeks of the same arse"

Bejazzled · 05/02/2017 11:05

Scotland rejected independence after project fear and biased media and 'the vow

Utterly insulting.

The Yes voters don't like the stereotypes attached to them, (although many I know deserve it, they are the worst keyboard Braveheart warriors) but are very quick to deride No voters with opinions like that.
I am a No voter, don't give a shiny shit about the vow etc and most people I know are the same. The SNP do not represent or speak for me.

Olympiathequeen · 05/02/2017 11:05

If the first Indyref had succeeded, Scotland would have been independent last year.

Oil revenues have fallen so drastically they would not keep the Scottish economy afloat.

The Barnett formula and Westminster (and the remainder of the UKs taxpayers) would no longer be paying the Scots a higher per capita allowance than most of the UK, and Scottish revenue would fall far short meaning poverty for working people and failing services.

They would not be allowed to join the EU because their debt is too great (15 billion) twice that of the rest of the UK. www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/scotland-almost-15-billion-in-debt-and-its-deficit-is-almost-twice-as-large-as-the-uk-as-a-whole-say-a6921381.html

In 2 (ish) years they will have to negotiate with the remainder of the uk a trade deal which may mean us (their biggest market by far) imposing crippling tariffs.

Scotland would be well and truly up that shitty creek all thanks to NS.

And they still want to push for independence? Cloud cuckoo land springs to mind.

Calyx72 · 05/02/2017 11:11

If Scotland was at the moment an independent country and the UK approached the Scottish government trailing their national debt along with them and suggested that they should take over our economy and our governance they would be laughed at.

The fact is that nobody can make long term economic predictions because much of it is unpredictable. What we do know is that Scotland is a country with many rich resources which gives us an excellent foundation for independence. Many smaller countries with fewer resources do well. I think with or without oil Scotland is not a poor country and is more than capable of managing our own governance.

CaraAspen · 05/02/2017 11:11

I am always struck by the fact that the pro-Indies are articulate and reasonable, in contrast to the shrill empty vessels who know very little indeed.

Flowerydems · 05/02/2017 11:12

But it's not all about oil. There's other thriving areas of industry in this country apart from outdated oil and gas and fishery.

I voted for independence as we needed to remain supplemented by Europe to keep certain flows of income to the country. We have completely different wants and needs than England and not being funny Theresa may is a joke, she doesn't speak for me with her crusade to threaten vengeance should we not get a good enough deal from Europe. She's a poor mans thatcher with the spine of rubber.

Olympiathequeen · 05/02/2017 11:14

Calyx. The Scottish debt is twice that of the U.K.

Olympiathequeen · 05/02/2017 11:15

Facts can't be denied.

Scotland would not be allowed into the EU

Oil revenues would not currently keep Scotland afloat

Scottish debt is greater than U.K. Debt

originalmavis · 05/02/2017 11:17

EU wouldn't have Scotland as they couldn't condone breakups of existing nations - Basques, Catalans, etc. It just wouldn't fly.

Olympiathequeen · 05/02/2017 11:22

Mavis. It also wouldnt fly on purely financial grounds.

Sobering reading for the Scots when they finally get round to taking their heads out of the sand

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-35757787

SaorAlbaGuBrath · 05/02/2017 11:23

I am always struck by the fact that the pro-Indies are articulate and reasonable, in contrast to the shrill empty vessels who know very little indeed

I'm pro-Indy, and comments like that aren't helpful or indeed called for! There are arseholes in every walk of life, there are no voters who say vile things and there are yes voters that say things which make me sick. Nasty comments, whatever your opinion aren't helpful and are exactly what caused the divide.

My neighbours and my entire family were no voters, we never fell out, we never said nasty things to each other, in fact DP and I walked to the polls with our neighbours on the day. Once you need to sink to being nasty to get your point across, you've lost the argument. It's uncalled for.

originalmavis · 05/02/2017 11:23

I know but had to go and rescue scrambled eggs from the stove so couldn't add more to my penneths worth!

Calyx72 · 05/02/2017 11:24

This chap is vehemently for independence and his writing style rubs folk up the wrong way a bit. But everything he says is referenced and researched. Re: debt and deficit

wingsoverscotland.com/the-six-key-facts-about-gers/

The democratic deficit cannot be waved aside though. For me it's not just about money. And I am not a good debater, just a naive Scot who prays for independence from Westminster rule. I think lots of people in England wish they had another option. The rage and anger from some people who want to save the Union makes me sad.