To ask scots if they actually like Nicola sturgeon

[Karen85]

Just out of curiosity really because she and her voice make me cringe when i hear her on tv or radio.

Love scots though please don't get me wrong.

Nicola and the SNP were voted in to government on a manifesto stating they would have another referendum if Scotland were taken out of the EU against its will. She is acting democratically

Was that explicitly stated? I don't read the SNP manifesto (I don't need to read its, UKIP's to make my mind up not to vote for them) but she has been banging on about a change of circumstances being the justification.

What on earth is "disturbing" about not seeing Sturgeon through rose- tinted spectacles? I was shocked by her arrogance and contemptuous attitude towards the majority vote in the immediate aftermath of the
independence referendum. She was lacking in any grace.

As for economics, the budget deficit at Holyrood would tend to suggest "we" (whoever that might be) do not have people who can sort it all out. They were conspicuous by their absence in the independence run up.

amp.theguardian.com
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/14/independent-scotland-financial-future-westminster-holyrood-government

It was explicitly stated.

I was disturbed (subjective) at the assumption that she is vain, egotistical etc as in my belief she is acting for Scotland not herself.

And the Guardian is as unionist as they come, I choose to have faith in Scotland's ability to self govern for the benefit of its people (and rUK) when it happens.

No, I'm really not a fan. I used to be, but as time has gone on I find her to be quite deceitful, I don't trust her and I've come to the view that literally everything she does is to try and further the independence cause (not acceptable when she was elected to look after Scotland day to day). I really resent the way she and the SNP manufacture grievance with the RUK, and try to make out that Scotland is so different (and just that bit better than the rest of the UK) when the difference is a lot less than she suggests. For instance when the SNP block voted against trident to give the impression that the whole of Scotland opposes it (polls show support at about 50:50), and lately all of the banging on about Brexit and how Scotland's voice must be respected and independence will be her only option if her impossible demands aren't met (polls show consistently that even after a hard Brexit people still don't support independence). Mostly I hate how they talk the socialist talk, but their policies generally benefit the well off (refusing to raise taxes when given the power to do so, universal tuition fees at the expense of college places, council tax freezes that mean local services for the vulnerable must be cut....I'm sure there are many more).

She puts on a decent show I'll grant her that, but there's very little substance, and I find the grandstanding, threats and whining embarrassing quite honestly. I think there's a fair bit of SNP buyers remorse up here, as they refuse to use the powers they have and seem to think 'standing up for Scotland' means demanding the impossible (re. Brexit) and threatening indyref2 at every opportunity rather than actually working with people to make the most of the situation.

I had issues with her back when she was minister for health. Cutting nursing places and issues with waiting lists have had a big knock on effect on the NHS in Scotland now. It left me with little confidence in her abilities when she was made FM, and her performance subsequent to his has not surprised me. Far too much focus on constitutional issues and so little on what people need on a daily basis, health, education and an effective police force.

I was disturbed (subjective) at the assumption that she is vain, egotistical etc as in my belief she is acting for Scotland not herself

I disagree profoundly she is acting for the best interests of Scotland.

She is monomaniacial in her determination to have independence no matter what. Her behaviour post Brexit has been short term blatant opportunism designed to cause more uncertainty. Independence at any cost is her only concern. The SNP 's raison d'etre is based on monomania.

The SNP deliberately do not use the existing Holyrood powers since to do so would mean they can't blame Westminster for everything.

Far too much focus on constitutional issues and so little on what people need on a daily basis, health, education and an effective police force

Exactly. I'll add far too much tinkering with legislation producing endless consultation papers (which are rarely listened to) leading to constant rewriting and amendments to legislation and legislation which then sits half implemented (some of which is then amended before it is even implemented)

As a person I have no feelings one way or the other

As a politician I find her untruthful, opportunistic, devious and with a single track agenda (independence) which is a non starter on any level.

I do agree the SNP have a genuine beef about the EU referendum and Brexit but their figures still don't stack up.

If the indyref had got through with the drastic drop in oil price the Scottish economy would have been up shit creek. They wouldn't have been able to join the EU because they lacked financial stability needed.

This current stance of another Indyref is nothing more than an empty threat, because statistically the people who voted for Brexit and for Indyref and those who didn't have cancelled themselves out making the2nd Indyref final vote the same as the 1st.

The latest wheeze is is to say TM should negotiate the rest of the UK out of the single market but allow Scotland to stay in. Paid for of course by the rest of the UK because you pay into the single market and effectively paying tariffs up front, and allow free movement of people into Scotland. Ignoring the fact most want to come to England. And ignoring the fact we may have to pay tariffs into the rest of the UK so we'll be paying twice so Scotland can have the benefit.

And ignoring the fact Scotland trades 4 times as much with us as with the EU and their EU trade hasn't changed in 10 years. So they'll have free trade with us and the EU and we will pay for all of it.

And I won't even mention the Barnett principle which give Scots higher per capita allowances than other parts of the UK and which NS can't seem to spend wisely with the stupid 'baby box for all' waste of money.

Scotland does very well out of the rest of the UK and instead of being grateful for it NS and the SNP want, not just their cake and eat it, but a whole banquet too.

NS is definitely having a laugh. She certainly talks a load of BS.

Actually Northern Ireland gets the highest per head out of the Barnett formula.

Olympia no-one would need to pay to trade if Brexit hadn't happened.

Barnett formula comes out of Scotland's money into Westminster which includes oil and export duties which aren't even declared as Scottish on the books. I believe Scotland keeps rUK afloat which is why we are subject to all the hatred (media demonising Scots and the SNP) for wanting to leave. Westminster are desperate to keep Scotland - why if we are such a drain?

I still haven't heard any real benefit for Scotland of staying in the Union and Nicola Sturgeon is doing everything right with regard to independence.

I don't get the personal 'hatred' and personal comments about her, it makes me extremely uncomfortable. Yes

She is monomaniacial in her determination to have independence no matter what

Sturgeon is a vain , egotistical, monomaniac who displayed utter contempt for the No majority after the Indy ref

As a politician I find her untruthful, opportunistic, devious and with a single track agenda (independence) which is a non starter on any level

I don't see any of these statements as personal attacks. 2 of them are mine and are based on her performance as a politician.

Far worse is said on here about for example Thatcher, Cameron, Osborne, Blair, Corbyn, May, Dianne Abbot.

Calyxx - plenty of people have stated the disadvantages to leaving the UK - the opposite of those are the advantages to staying.

I'd add some that I don't think have been covered of the top of my head.

Economies of scale
Better military protection
Access to borrowing
legislation and consumer protection
Financial regulation.

All the ombudsman organisations would need to be set up again within Scotland. We'd need a separate FCA for financial regulation, we'd probably need an equivalent of the Bank of England etc etc. All these things cost and we currently have access to them as part of the UK. If we had our own, economies of scale wouldn't apply and they would cost more per head of the population than they cost us as part of the UK. We'd also need an information commissioner and probably loads more that I can't think of at the moment.

I'll agree that Nicola is doing the right things towards independence, but actually she is being paid to run Scotland, not fanny about on her own party's cause. Also, we didn't vote for independence though that seems to have been forgotten.

no-one would need to pay to trade if Brexit hadn't happened

So what do you think happens at the moment?

Wankers thanks for replying.

Problem is I think none of those benefits are going to be the case. We can have all of those with iScotland (including our own bank and currency and borrowing) or with EU - which we don't have to leave with rUK incidentally.

There aren't tariffs on trade between UK countries and in EU common market atm

Itsallgoingtobefine. I think you must have grown up in a different Scotland to me. I moved there when I was 7 left at 17 and couldn't wait to get out. Myself and my English parents were subjected to appalling anti-English bullying (if you don't want to call it racism ). Which culminated in having a White feather posted through the door and a note telling us to go back to England. This anti English rubbish is the same crap that she is still peddling. Her only aim is independence and to be honest Id be quite happy to let Scotland go if only to see the back of her.

There aren't tariffs on trade between UK countries and in EU common market atm

Technically but that is part of what we pay into the EU for, and in fact originally it was mainly what we paid in for iirc. So it's untrue to say that we don't pay tariffs, we just pay an overall payment that effectively pays for the absence of tariffs.

Also, you need to fotget about independent membership of the Eu for Scotland and relying on what that can make up for. We aren't going to have that in any way near the short term, possibly not in my lifetime.

And No, Scotland doesn't have any of those things. I work in Financial Regulation, we would need a new level of regulation, it's really not simple.

yes, we have banks but those are commercial banks with their own independent agendas, not a central financial organisation that works for the overall country, not to make money themselves as such.

Having said that, if there was a decent case then sometimes it's worth being poorer in order to achieve a greater good, that decent case really doesn't exist. The vast majority of Scots are better off that they ever were. When you look around the world, there aren't many that have things as good as we have here, that's why people want to get here, who can blame them?

Yes, there are some really important issues that face this country, and more so in Scotland than in some other parts of the UK. Some of those have been caused by the SNP either by direct policies or by ineptitude. if NS and her cronies would just make some solid, decent effort to resolve those then I'd have a greater respect for them. It's good for them to keep people feeling poor and disgruntled while she is blaming Westminster for that. Some of it is indeed Westminsters fault, but a lot of it can be squarely laid at their own door.

Scotland has a lot of bright, talented, hard working people (same as everywhere). It also has a lot of people that think that money goes on trees and that the world owes them a living (same as everywhere). We are not so different as SNP likes to make out. We are not one homogenous group that all believes the same things and wants the same things. However at the moment the majority of the people in this country are being misrepresented by the SNP.

I think you must have grown up in a different Scotland to me

I guess we must have. Parallel universes and all that.

This anti English rubbish is the same crap that she is still peddling

People keep saying that on this thread, I'd be really interested to see an example because it's really not something I recognise.

Wankers but what about the democratic deficit where Scotland's vote is swallowed in rUK's vote and we end up with governments we haven't voted for?

Independence would mean setting up of financial everything but wouldn't you be happy to do it in order to get self governance for Scotland?

I don't need to forget an iScotland in the EU or even another option where we are in EFTA or the common market. It will happen if rUK continue on this course they've started on.

Independence would be worth the hassle and Scotland would benefit more than from this union.

Scotland is far too small to make a go of things on its own - Norway does not count as it has massive reserves of oil.

England isn't our 'neighbour'. It's the south of Britland. The border between Scotland and England is arbitrary.

The sensible way of governing the island of Britain is to have one government. What a waste of effort and resources to break up the union.

But then I'm a Scottish person who doesn't think of herself as a 'proud scot' - nationalism should not be encouraged. It's not ethical. Anyway NS' seems to think Scotland extends as far north as stirling.

The idea of self governance is only relevant if you're part of a different religion or culture. The difference between Scotland and England is not significant. I've never had a govt I've voted for as I usually vote lib dem.

Rogueantimatter - just completely the opposite of my beliefs and I respect your right to them. I'm with Nicola however.

We get the government that the whole country has voted for, we get the scottish parliament that people have voted for, we get the councils that people have voted for. That's just the way it is, I am currently sitting with a council party in charge that I didn't vote for, a scottish parliament in charge that I didn't vote for and a UK government in charge that I didn't vote for. That's life. That's democracy. If we had an independent Scotland, I'd still be sitting with a situation and a party that I didn't vote for. Just in a worse financial position with less opportunities for my children.

It will happen if rUK continue on this course they've started on. No it won't. It would be vetoed.

Independence would mean setting up of financial everything but wouldn't you be happy to do it in order to get self governance for Scotland? No, because that government would still not be reflecting my views and we would be fucked.

Independence would be worth the hassle and Scotland would benefit more than from this union.

Exactly how? I have two teenage boys, how is living in an independent Scotland going to be better for them?

I'd be up for some political reform but it won't happen in Scotland because it benefits the party in power not to do it. There is more chance of gaining that in the UK I feel. Elected politicians should be able to reflect the views of their constituents but the SNP no dissent from the party line doesn't always allow that to happen. You should be able to affiliate with a political party and not have to follow 100% of what they want. That makes the party dangerous and powerful.

Calyx72 I live in Scotland and I don't have the government I voted for I. E the SNP heading up the country in Edinbirgh and in actual fact even looking at the GE my country has 56 SNP MPS out of 59 and I din't vote SNP. 1.4m voted for the SNP but 1.5m voted for all the other party's but we have to put up with the SNP supposidly representing us down Westminster.

But then I'm a Scottish person who doesn't think of herself as a 'proud scot'

Rogue, i used to be, I should be allowed to be, but I can't anymore. I was always proud to be Scottish, but not in a way that was against other countries. I'd just as much defend the rights of someone to be proud to be English or Irish or Welsh. Now it's been tainted with a nasty strain of nationalism that I abhor. The SNP did that. I hate myself and every other Scot for allowing that to happen. We were stupid, maybe we deserve the SNP for allowing that.