AIBU to think that people who don't have young children who park in parent and child spaces are selfish?

[Kjc105]

I was reading an article on the Daily Fail about a young couple with a baby who were left a note saying that parent and child spaces are for people with children (they were with their baby) but what annoyed me were people commenting under the article who were saying that they always park in parent and child even if there are other spaces available as they feel parents are entitled to too many things and why should they be inconvenienced by people having children. Is it me or is this totally selfish as the reason why those spaces are they are for the safety of the children, more space so other car doors aren't dented and closer to the store so it is generally safer for children and less likely for a child to be hit by a car. AIBU to think these people are selfish?

again it's the people who openly admit they do it because they feel parents are too 'entitled'!

Maybe some parents need to think WHY childless people might just think that about them?

Reality. Seriously?! hmm Misuse is a broad teRm. Oh yes, of course. Whatever suits you , as that seems to be how your posts progress.

Misuse is a broad term, but it's a term which is used to desc be people who have the badge misusing said badge I.E. incorrect use of badge. It means jack shit in terms of peopl having a badge who you think should not be entitled.

Your 'evidence' does not relate to your claim. Broad term maybe, but it has to be relevant. Yours isn't.

Reality? It's not my evidence, it's that of fraud investigation officers. I merely shared it. Are you crazy? You seem a bit over invested in winning an argument that I wasn't even aware we was having. What difference does it make as to how the badges were misused? If people are borrowing badges and parking in areas they shouldn't be, that is morally and legally just as wrong as those who fake disablement. Both are offenses that are taken seriously and prosecuted. It is what it is, it's there in black and white. Your choice if you wish to disagree, I've no interest in proving anything to you or anyone else.

FunnyOnion Welcome to Mumsnet, or have you recently name changed?
I think it's out of order someone with mobility issues thinks they have a right to these spaces tbh Wurts. Just as I would think it's disgusting anybody other than a disabled person would use a disabled space.
I think it's out of order for anybody who resents someone with a disability using a space that is safe and convenient for them, no matter what label it has been given.

Tbh if a disabled person had no choice but to use the parent space, fine I get that.
Why thanks for your generosity, Dds and I shall doff our caps next time we see you.

Both have parking areas and if there aren't enough then moan about the retail outlets and shops, not parents for daring to use an area that keeps their child safe and makes life easier.
It's not the people with disabilities complaining, we did campaign, talk to the retail stores etc. It's the parents complaining about those nasty people with disabilities daring to leave the house and use your spaces; ergo you talk to the stores.

Your complete fucking nonsense about compliance officers and benefit fraud being rife is exactly that: complete fucking nonsense. As is your complete nonsense about winning and being right or wrong. It's great that P&C spaces are there, but grow the fuck up, develop some empathy and if a person with disabilities needs that space for whatever reason accept it with good grace.

On a final note, disability benefit fraud is less than half a percent. 0.04%. That is not rife, annecdata does not trump data.

I don't get these threads, why are people so annoyed with these parking spaces they do fill a need and you do need more space around you with prams and carseats. Usually there are Parent and toddler spaces AND disabled spaces. The shop provides them to make it easier for parents who also happen to be good customers, what's with the jealousy?

I do have children but they are 7 and 10 now so don't use them anymore

Usually there are Parent and toddler spaces AND disabled spaces

The trouble is not all people with problems getting out of their cars qualify for blue badges. On these threads you often get posters insisting that ONLY parents should ever park in p and c spaces. Most reasonable people recognise that others have a sensible reason to park in those spaces and don't get annoyed about it.

Dawn. I'm actually a long standing member of Mumsnet, but thankyou for the belated welcome :)

Your post is very angry and a bit over invested IMO. You can't just claim an issue doesn't exist and throw out there a few of your own statistics and claim to be the pearl of all wisdom on the subject. But hey ho have your moment if it makes your day, bless.

Funny Awfully sorry, but actually they're the DWPs own statistics and if you've been here awhile you'd know that I'm not stupid enough to make it up as I go along. I use verifiable statistics. But please, continue to be a patronising arse, it's not me you're not showing me up.

Published: 19 May 2016 Great Britain

Biannual

The Department for Work and Pensions administers welfare benefits to around 22 million people. ‘Fraud and Error in the Benefit System’ estimates overpayments (the total amount of money lost to the department because claimants are paid too much) and underpayments (the total amount of money lost to claimants who are not paid enough). This is the first year that we have measured fraud and error on Universal Credit. Further information on the change of categorisation of overpayments can be found in the Background and Methodology document.
Main stories

1.8% of expenditure overpaid
This remains the lowest recorded rate. It amounts to £3.1bn of overpayments.
1.0% of expenditure underpaid
This is the highest recorded rate. It amounts to £1.8bn of underpayments.
We changed the way we categorise overpayments after 2013/14
This change in methodology means some overpayments have switched to being categorised as fraud rather than claimant error. This is driving recent trends: fraud is now at its highest recorded rate; claimant error is at its lowest recorded rate.
Percentage of expenditure
2.5% 2.0% 1.5% 1.0% 0.5% 0.0%
Overpayments
Underpayments
1.8%
1.0%
2005/06 2015/16P
An estimate, and oh look, they're actual, real, proper, verifiable government statistics.

Reality? It's not my evidence, it's that of fraud investigation officers. I merely shared it. Are you crazy? haha am I crazy you used an mini article about people who misuse their blue badges to back up your opinion of people who fraudulently obtain them. These 2 things are NOT the same. But as a pp has already said, you crack the fuck on, it's not me who is looking 'crazy' here.

Bloody hell funny you can't make a ludicrous claim and then throw a strop when people challenge it or ask you to actually back it up with facts. Saying "find out for yourself" is daft, YOU made the ludicrous claim.

Also, a screenshot of a news report that's 6.5 years old, that talks about TWO cities in the whole of the UK potentially having people 'misuse' blue badges (like a PP said why do you think this means that non-disabled people are getting them, it doesn't?) does not hard evidence make. You blatantly panic googled and saw the words 'blue badge' 'misuse' and 'millions' and thought it proved your point. Sorry us MNers ain't that stupid. Unless you're prepared to show actual evidence that millions of people have blue badges that shouldn't, you my friend are talking utter horse shit. You can't just make up facts and expect people to buy it. Unless you're 4 years old wouldn't surprise me

it's not me you're not showing me up.

What a strange thing to say?! You struck up a conversation with me, I replied. Why be so angry and make it personal about showing you up?

So you've found one set of statistics, I found another. Why be so offended about me pointing out some people are abusing the system. If you aren't, then why are you do bothered. Let's say I'm wrong and it rarely happens, why are you do personally offended? After all I'm offended that people take away resources from those wheels are genuinely disabled. As I've said

Crikey dawn where do you get off providing actual facts? Don't you know round these parts you're just supposed to make them up to suit your own disablism agenda?

Funny you haven't provided statistics though have you? You provided a news report from 7 years ago

Funny -- why are you SO incredulous that pp are asking you for data to back up your claims??? Didn't you learn that at school, that you can't just pull shit out of your a? Or are you saying that you are justified in using "alternative facts" since Trump is in office?

Funny -- no one "struck up a conversation" with you. This is an open forum. We are all reading and reacting to each others' posts. Don't take everything so personal. Sheesh... calm down, no need to get so upset.

Funny. I provided government statistics. You know, from the department of work and pensions, the people that administer said benefits. You did not provide any statistics whatsoever.

I am offended about you pointing out that many more people abuse the system than do and provided verifiable facts to demonstrate such. I am offended because when people like you come onto a thread and harangue and argue that 'fraud is rife', it is those with disabilities that suffer. Disability hate crime has increased ten fold since 2010. That is due in part to people claiming or implying that we're all on the fiddle. I fully accept that a few and it is comparatively few, people fiddle the system, however, stating it is rife however, helps nobody; least of all those in receipt of benefits and helps that enable a halfway decent quality of life. I'm not about to let you and your ilk fuck it up further.

Cherry I'm so sorry, I do try to keep a lid on the providing peer reviewed evidence lark, but it's damned hard!

Cherry. What would I prove with statistics? Just under 3 billion pounds last year alone was fraudulently claimed according to DWP. There's a statistic for you. Hardly pennies is it, and that's only those they actually could prove. As I said my BIL and DM aren't part of said statistics. I'm sorry, remind me again why you are so offended that I am disgusted at none disabled people claiming and using resources that are vitaly needed by disabled people? Even if for whatever reason I've over estimated it, just under 3 billion pounds is shocking. Hence why compliance officers and claim investigation exists.

Apologies for grammar etc. I can write a coherent sentence, honestly. Dd was up a lot last night, that's my excuse!

Actually Dawn you didn't provide statistics about blue badge scheme fraud, so keep things on topic please! Comparing one set of fraud statistics to another is nonsensical.

Oh good grief, it's almost impossible to get one without the other. Do your fucking research.

My dad parks in the when i'm with him, because i do have a disability, but it's a mental one so not qualifying of BB. Severe OCD about toilet use and germs and an unstable bladder is hell to live with. My bladder can have as little as an egg cup full of fluid in it, but i gt a sudden urge that my bladder is full to bursting and i need to go NOW. Because of my OCD i haven't been able to use a toilet outside of my own home in 10 years, partly as it takes me an hour (used to be 4) with all the rituals involved including needing to partially undress to keep my clothes clean, have latex gloves to wear, at least 1 full toilet roll, antibacterial soap and disinfectant spray to spritz over myself afterwards. Obviously i cannot do that in public toilets, so i have a minute or two to get out of the shop (lots of abandoned baskets) and get to the car and sat in it, as sitting down eases the feeling giving me enough time to get home. Obv can't park in disabled bays, so we park as close to the doors as possible, sometimes that happens to be in P&C bays. Having an accident would be something i could not deal with, wetting myself is genuinely my absolute biggest fear, and my OCD makes me feel urine germs cannot be cleaned out of none machine washable things, i'd not be able to get in the car, be stranded having the mother of all panic attacks and unable to think of a way to get home and not contaminate everything on the way. My ability to leave the house is maybe once a week for an hour, even at home i can't independently look after myself and my dad is my registered full time carer, do you honestly begrudge people like me using P&C spaces? If you do, i suggest you write to the council who seem to think only physical disabilities (not including bladder disorders) warrant blue badges.

As I said my BIL and DM aren't part of said statistics

I assume you have reported any fraud they have been involved in then.

I am trying to find a document that I can download to show you the figures, but they are verifiable.
In 2015 2.39 million blue badges were issued.
There were 985 prosecutions.
Less than 1%, funny.
But of course, fraud is rife, isn't it.