DH won't denounce Trump. AIBU to expect him to?

[FabulousUsername]

Just wondering if anyone else has encountered this. I haven't been very politically involved in the past but I have a keen sense of right and wrong and I detest Trump's bullying ways. And most everything he says, I'm sure there is no need to explain the revulsion I feel about his leadership. DH would say, at a push, that he's a bit of a monster but that he has a point, that he's a guy who gets things done, he knows 'how the world works'.

I'm seeing patriarchy everywhere...and I feel really aggrieved that H tacitly supports the view that it is our destiny. As a bit of backstory, he does belittle my work and (I now realise) looks down on women generally. For example, joking about men trading in wives for younger models like Trump-- clever guy, eh (me with bored sarcastic eye roll). I've responded to this by saying that the door is open and if he wants to trade me in he's welcome to. But he insists its banter and all men talk like that and that I can't take a joke. Old stuff, really, but in the context of the Trump presidency it suddenly seems crucial for him to realise that this sort of joke isn't acceptable. Not one bit. And it isn't funny to joke about me wanting to march in protest to Trump. I keep thinking he will change and be on my side, so to speak, but so far no sign of it.

Would you choose to 'agree to disagree'? Or would the thought of being married to a Trump apologist be a dealbreaker?

Remember that millions of Americans voted for Trump, presumably not all of them are horrible people. I think that the key is to engage and debate, not just go off on one and refuse to listen, that just creates deeper divisions and more hate.

I'd challenge your husband to explain what exactly he thinks Trump will "get done", how and to what benefit. Arm yourself with facts. Going straight to emotional and angry will just lead to him saying you're being hysterical and irrational.

All that said, it sounds like all this Trump stuff has been a bit of a catalyst that has made you realise how much you dislike some aspects of your husband's character. Only you can decide whether these traits are something you can live with or not.

Surprised it's taken this long to mention Brexit.

It's a fool who sees no link between Theresa May's desperation to keep Trump onside, and Brexit.

People turn a blind eye to real evil. I don't get it.

You certainly don't.

Basically, the current Trump situation is a glass that is reflecting something that was always problematic about your dh. His idea of what is acceptable banter among men, his attitude towards your work, the fact that he admires the specifically misogynistic aspects of Trump's persona: it's all part of a wider picture.

Impossible to say what you ought to do with it, but I can well understand that you feel upset.

The thing is AddToBasket is that it's always the moderates, and often women, who are told they have to moderate their language, compromise and 'play nice'.

Where are the Republicans telling Trump to communicate calmly without generalisation or hysteria or black/white personal descriptions?

Where are the UKIPers telling Farage et al that they need to acknowledge other views?

I'm quite serious, where are they? I don't see them on Twitter, or being interviewed, or writing in the papers. Where are they all? Because nunced measured communication is a two way exchange.

The thing is AddToBasket is that it's always the moderates, and often women, who are told they have to moderate their language, compromise and 'play nice'.

Because that's how they win, and they know it.

People turn a blind eye to real evil

This IS real evil, on a massive scale. Wake up.

How on earth can anyone who has been paying the slightest bit of attention look at what Bannon and Trump have been doing, and go "oh, it's a bit strong to call them evil"?

it's always the moderates, and often women, who are told they have to moderate their language, compromise and 'play nice'

Exactly. Which is why I invite everyone to join me in calling them cuntbags. We don't need to afford Trump supporters any respect, they have none for us.

Until the last few days I largely subscribed to the view that yes, trump is an idiot and an asshole but we've had much more odious people running countries and welcomed here on state visits, so let's chill the fuck out.
But it seems to be the case that these orders are unlawful - and therefore those state officials who stand against them are standing for the rule of law. And trump is firing them. I'm getting the feeling that the fundamental principle that he as president is bound by law too is not one he understands or accepts.
So maybe I'm wrong. Maybe he is hitler. Hitler got lots of votes too (though not a majority). This gets airbrushed out of history but lots of Germans thought old Adolf was peachy, til it turned shitty on them and they lost.

You don't know me. I may 'blind eye' to Trump, but I bet you are selective about what you like to get angry about.

There are people around who will happily march and wave a placard against Trump, but will think nothing of turning a blind eye towards countries where leaders are living in luxury whilst they have thousands and thousands of young children living rough and in abject poverty on the streets.
India is a good example. Don't see anybody boycotting Indian. Mexico is another place.
What about the disgusting cruelty to animals that happens in places like China?
I don't see people boycotting those places.
You talk about racism. Where are all the protests about the caste system (still very much alive and kicking) in certain countries?

''Oh no. Never mind all that. Lets concentrate on Trump, sign a petition and never go to DisneyWorld again as a form of protest''

Just because something isn't reported in the papers in a sensationalist way doesn't mean to say those things aren't happening. People who see that instead of concentrating on the latest bandwagon that's rolling through are the ones who
really see things and aren't turning a blind eye.

The other thing about these orders is even on trumps own terms they're really dumb. They're badly drafted and the execution has been poor. That opens up the goal mouth for his enemies to undermine him, and alienates business interests who til now were staying quiet. He could have done this a lot smarter. So not only is he an idiot (we knew that), he's badly advised.

To me the real moral question is: what is the best course of action to effect change and stop Trump taking a Hitler-esque path. We can denounce him and call him all the names we want, but will that achieve anything?

This tweet by Michael A. Nutter, re-tweeted by Hilary Clinton, got me thinking:

Marching, good. organizing, better. Speaking up, good. Running for office, better. Registering, good. Voting BEST!!

I see that whatsthepointofmorgan has resorted to whattaboutism. He really, the people who campaign against Trump are the ones who campaign against other injustices. While your type sit on their complacent arses.

^There are people around who will happily march and wave a placard against Trump, but will think nothing of turning a blind eye towards countries where leaders are living in luxury whilst they have thousands and thousands of young children living rough and in abject poverty on the streets. India is a good example. Don't see anybody boycotting Indian. Mexico is another place. What about the disgusting cruelty to animals that happens in places like China? I don't see people boycotting those places.
You talk about racism. Where are all the protests about the caste system (still very much alive and kicking) in certain countries?^

whatisthepointofmorgan are you seriously saying that unless each individual takes action on every injustice in the world, they are not allowed to protest about any injustice? What kind of world would we have then?

And the reality is that almost all the activists I know do work on all kinds of campaigns simultaneously. It's called multitasking, and it's pretty common, except amongst your circle of friends, apparently.

Anyway, you carry on with your tired whataboutery, and the rest of us will carry on trying to stop the world going to any more shit than it already is.

'Generally', not 'He really'.

Cockacidal's starting to go off on one too.

Entertaining.

OP, I think the comments aren't really about Trump and Trump is a bit of a red herring. I wouldn't want to be married to a man who thought like this - it would make me deeply unhappy. However, I'd probably stick at it, as I think marriage is for life unless there's something like abuse/ adultery. I'm not sure. I'd tell him why you are so unhappy about what he's saying and hope that he could absorb some of the comments if he loves you/ respects you.

It seems you are married to a bog standard "suits me you know" sexist OP. And you re having a feminist awakening - who knows where that will lead?

I would say, keep on your path - and see where it leads you. You may well find you no longer want to share your life with someone who belittles you and looks down on you and your life - someone who thinks you are somehow "less" than him.

Which would not be a bad thing for you and your happiness.

Whatsthepoint - how do you know that? I frequently sign petitions for Amnesty about human rights abuses in the Middle East and sponsored an Indian child. Most of my activist friends have more than one concern. I happen to think though that public outrage is more effective against Trump because the US IS a democracy with many decent citizens who care about how their nation is perceived overseas and may vote accordingly.

Anyway, you carry on with your tired whataboutery

Whataboutery. What a big word.

Cockacidal's starting to go off on one too.

Entertaining.

Yeah, if you like. I saw a programme last night on the Scottish roots of racism is the Deep South of America. Interesting, considering your username.

You sign petitions?

Yeah, if you like. I saw a programme last night on the Scottish roots of racism is the Deep South of America. Interesting, considering your username.

And yet I'm not Scottish.

whatsthepointofmorgan

I'm really interested in the causes you mention especially the anti-caste and child poverty issues. Perhaps you can link us up with the work you are doing to draw attention and protest these issues?

No? hmmmmm?