to still be cross about the outcome of the EU referendum?

[mynamesnotsam]

I'm still so angry and can't forgive those who voted to leave. After the result there was much talk of how the two sides must put aside their differences but I don't feel there has been any attempt to try to appease the 48.1% of people who voted to stay. I also want to rip the head off any one who says it's the will of the people. They should be legally obligated to say it's the will of 51.9 % of the people who voted. If the vote had gone the other way you can bet that UKIP would still be making a huge fuss about it but remainers are expected to "just get over it"!

Just interested in your view Mother, no pressure

I am still really angry, mostly at the fact that the majority of MPs campaigned for Remain, some have admitted that leaving the EU will be a disaster for the UK, but they still voted for it! All because they fear losing their seats but they should be voting with their conscience and doing what is best for their constituency and the nation as a whole.

This is much greater than an election result and will affect us for generations, in a negative way.

I am trying to do something about it by lobbying MPs, writing to members of the Lords, have joined groups on social media and attending marches, the biggest one set for 25th March.

I've just emailed the PM over the false statement in the official White Paper legislation.

Did anyone see Question Time last night where a woman said this:

'I was voting Remain and at the very last minute I changed my decision and I went to Leave. 'The reason because of that is because I go to the supermarket and a banana is straight. I'm just sick of the silly rules that come out of Europe".

THIS is why the referendum was idiotic. Because great swathes of the population are idiotic.

Peregrina - did you email her ?

Postcard - so that it could be read as it was going through the post, with PRIME MINISTER TELL A BLATANT LIE in capitals. Although that was a mistake - I was just going to just put PM at first, but accidentally wrote the R and then I had to continue. Whoops.

The majority of MPs were remainers, but were too afraid of the consequences (i.e. losing their seats next time around) to put their money where their mouths are, it would not have been a surprise to their constituents if they had voted with their consciences, as they had publicly chosen sides at the referendum time

I've heard a lot of people saying this. If this is your view, I can understand why you would be angry with the MPs who voted "against their conscience". But this whole saga has been characterised by people not understanding why other people are acting as they are and ascribing (unpleasant) motives to them because they cannot understand that for example, someone could vote leave for well-considered and good motives.

Is it not possible that MPs were following their conscience and thought that, irrespective of their own views, since the referendum vote was to leave, the greater good of this country will be served by them honouring this outcome?

I have never voted Tory and fear for the future of the NHS but I accept that this is the government we have collectively elected and that a price we pay for democracy is that it doesn't always go our way.

Remainer MPs in Leave voting areas I can sort of understand if they don't want to lose their seats. But what of those Tory Remain voting MPs in Remain areas? What excuses their behaviour? Or even worse Leave voting MPs in Remain areas - like John Redwood. Redwood has probably got a good enough majority to tell the voters who don't agree with him to get stuffed. Some of the other Remainers don't have huge majorities and could easily be turfed out at the next election.

Which false statement is that?

I am also really angry about all the lies from the leave campaign and I don't just mean the £350m to the NHS although that is huge but more to do with immigration which I think is the main reason leave won. We already have laws within the EU that can restrict the numbers but our successive governments have chosen not to implement them. For example when all the Eastern European countries joined the EU, the UK was one of only 3 countries, that allowed them in, because we didn't choose to enforce a law that we could have.

I really think if people knew this then there would have been a very different result. Add to that the fact that 16 - 17 year olds couldn't vote and ex pats living abroad for 15 years or more also couldn't. I think we would be seeing a remain majority!

Is it not possible that MPs were following their conscience and thought that, irrespective of their own views, since the referendum vote was to leave, the greater good of this country will be served by them honouring this outcome?

But don't you think they should be putting forward some reasons as to why it's better for the country? Other than 'the people have spoken', or vague hopes of trade deals which might happen. Or tell us what will happen when E European fruit pickers stay at home, and EU hospital staff up sticks and go? Or when scientists decamp? The failure to do so makes it sound like they are afraid of the mob, or have just been too lazy to think, or in the case of a number of Tory MPs they are looking towards their own political advancement.

Well said Peregrina.

My MP, for example, wrote to me several times praising the virtues of being in the EU, campaigned for this hard, visiting schools and so on. His constituency voted to remain but he voted with Theresa May. When asked, he just replies to me that it is the will of the people! But not the people he represents and nor has he come up with any reasons why we would be better off leaving the EU.
This is clearly wrong and in my opinion, not democratic as he is elected to represent our views and what he believes is right and as I have said he doesn't believe it is right or he would have said this all along or at least come up with some reasons why he has changed his mind!

Mine too angethomp. They have a duty to consider the good of the country, as well as represent their constituents - so tell us what new information has become available which has made them change their minds.

angethomp I quoted the false statement on the previous page of this thread. Here is it again, taken from the PMs statement in the Brexit White Paper official legislation:

"And another thing that’s important. The essential ingredient of our success. The strength and support of 65 million people willing us to make it happen."

If she wants to say the majority of those who voted in a referendum are providing Parliament with support and are willing them to make it happen, that's accurate. But even Remainers who are disappointed, reconciled, and now just want everyone to get on with it don't SUPPORT it. Millions don't support it. Ergo, this statement, in an official piece of legislation is a falsehood and a lie.

I should have thought a bit more before posting. Trump has got elected and because of our "Special" relationship, he is a Yuge supporter of the UK, so it will be alright, because he says so. That is the new information/change of circumstance since last June.

I wouldn't say I'm cross, I'm miffed that it got through parliament, I'm miffed that there was hardly anything in it and there's not a second vote now people know they were sold a pack of lies, I'm miffed TM speaks as if it was a landslide victory!

With everything that's going on including the fun & games in the US this is definitely one bleak winter!

I also hate how having an opinion against what was voted for (by a small majority) labels me a Remoaner. When it's those that won't see the fallout of this that voted in such a way, with the thought of immediate indiscriminate emigration for those not a WASP!

Singing Well, that's the tabloid press for you and the likes of the Daily Fail that helped push the Leave agenda for christening that term.

I thought I'd get less angry the further away from the result we got, but I'm actually getting more angry because the hypocrisy gets worse. Bad enough at the time when all the UKIPpers saying people were bad losers, that calling for a second referendum was a disgrace when Farage said pre-result that if the result was close - and he even quoted 52% remain and 48% leave (so the same figures as we got, just the other way around) - he'd be pushing for a second referendum because that result would be too close to accept.

Now we read other stuff coming out in the legislation that our laws were always sovereign while we were in the EU - but that's precisely why a lot of people voted Leave, because they were told we needed to get back our sovereignty.

Shatners Wig - sorry I didn't see the earlier post but absolutely agree with you. How dare she say that! Blatant lie, and I will also be writing to her to let her know she is wrong.

Peregrina, yes it is all the more worrying with Trump in power, as this wasn't the case last year when we voted and it does change things. We now basically have to choose between EU or Trump and I know where I would rather be for all sorts of reasons but primarily safety and peace within the EU! I'm really genuinely scared for our futures.

We'll have to agree to disagree Mother as we can't see into anyone else's head. I think the implications of parliament refusing to honour the referendum result would have been far too damaging to contemplate.

I'm still interested in who you do thinks understands the UK/EU relationship and whether they should be running the country for us, but as before, no pressure to answer.

There does also seem to be a bit of confusion about the referendum. It was a national referendum, for the whole country. MPs (most) are respecting the result for the whole country. Whether their constituents voted remain is, on that point, not relevant.

When it's those that won't see the fallout of this that voted in such a way, with the thought of immediate indiscriminate emigration for those not a WASP!

Oh my god, I'm a Catholic (lapsed) - am I going to have to go!

And why won't people who voted leave see the fallout (not me, obvs, I'm packing my bags as we speak)?

I think the implications of parliament refusing to honour the referendum result would have been far too damaging to contemplate.

I am a) not sure that this is the case, and b) I fail to see why there is the unseemly rush. Better and more skillful politicians would have been working to reconcile the two sides, for a starter. May opining that 65 million want it to work is just her opinion, saying that there were divisions with the implication that they aren't now is clearly nonsense. There are still family members not speaking to each other - never mind all the race hatred unleashed.

I think the implications of parliament refusing to honour the referendum result would have been far too damaging to contemplate.

A further thought on this, do you think referring to 16 million people as losers which May did, while it may be strictly accurate, is not a damaging statement?

I agree with you Peregrina that TM is wrong, and foolish, to say that the country is behind her on Brexit. It doesn't help anyone to stick our head in the sand.

I do wonder if some of the "unseemly rush" was precisely because (in part anyway) some remainers were talking about not honouring the referendum result.