to still be cross about the outcome of the EU referendum?

[mynamesnotsam]

I'm still so angry and can't forgive those who voted to leave. After the result there was much talk of how the two sides must put aside their differences but I don't feel there has been any attempt to try to appease the 48.1% of people who voted to stay. I also want to rip the head off any one who says it's the will of the people. They should be legally obligated to say it's the will of 51.9 % of the people who voted. If the vote had gone the other way you can bet that UKIP would still be making a huge fuss about it but remainers are expected to "just get over it"!

that's the problem though when people don't use their vote they can hardly complain afterwards, i know someone who never votes but is always whinging about everything, ffs vote vote and then you know you made your voice heard even if it didn't go in your favour.
why is there always so much vemon between these two camps when the 'can't be arsed brigade' sat on the fence to start with ?

On N.I. it's complicated, but to give a brief overview.

Brexit may well necessitate hard borders between North and South. This is a huge issue because it violates the terms of the Good Friday Agreement, which is the cornerstone of NI peace. Hard, patrolled borders were a big point of antagonism for nationalists during the troubles and the border was home to some of the worst violence. A return to this would be hugely triggering.

Nationalists voted overwhelmingly to remain. Sinn Fein are already talking about this giving them a mandate for a United Ireland. Unionists are vehemently opposed to this, so conflict is inevitable. Also, the Republic of Ireland have no real appetite to join with the North, which makes the situation even more difficult. The Republic already stand to lose out big time on Brexit as they'll be losing their biggest trading partner in the UK, so will be in no mood to play ball. Big can of worms about to be opened, no easy resolution in sight.

Loss of the EU commission as a neutral authority/abitrer between UK and Irish governments.

Loss of peace and reconcilliation funding from the EU which was doing a lot to bring different sides of the NI community together and build bridges.

Most nationalists and moderate unionists in NI are devastated by the result and very fearful of what it will trigger.

Thank you, Laurie

That's very very worrying.

We don't have to live with it. That's what democracy means

Yes you do. The majority have spoken.

It's was an advisory non-binding referendum.

There is no mandate.

We don't have to take the advice of a snapshot in time.

Brexit is not a foregone conclusion.

It is democratic to work against Brexit.

YANBU. Come to the march on 25 march, it will help you walk off some of your frustration and who knows, could help prompt z change of direction.

I think we're fully entitled to be upset about it. My main reason is that the majority of the people who I know voted leave for the most illogical, uninformed and narrow minded reasons. From what I can tell, we can all agree that the EU isn't perfect (just as is the case with most things) but their 'solution' is to burn it all down and have no idea what to replace it with.

I feel like I'm trapped in a burning house with the arsonists who set fire to it genuinely proud of themselves for setting fire to it!

Indeed! I'm so wounded by your role modelling of the entirely non-sneery, delightfully caring and kind behaviour which we should all emulate. I'm sure Wrong would be patting me on the back if I do so!

I know the conversation has moved on from yesterday's brouhaha but I see my Etiquette Guide to Brexit Debate has been misquoted, so just want to clarify.

I don't think sneery, dismissive or unkind comments are helpful from either "side" and there have been some from both leavers and remainers on this thread.

It's an incredibly emotive issue and I think everyone is responsible for whether their remarks increase the awful division in this country or make it just a little bit worse.

Hey rufus. Allows nice to see you on a thread

Shocking news that A50 bill pulls us out of Euratom - please consider signing the petition to maintain access to EU research programmes:

The biggest threat facing UK research at the moment comes from the continuing uncertainty around our future relationship with the EU.

Whether you voted to leave or remain, we hope you’ll agree with us: European collaboration and funding are vital to UK science, and we are calling on the government to maintain access to EU research programmes, whatever happens next with Brexit.

scienceisvital.org.uk/eu-campaign/

Fuckoff
Hear hear.
THe damage to UK Science is already critical as people will not come here on 3 / 4 / 5 year contracts

and I'm still gobsmacked that so few people understand how trade in goods actually works.
Have none of you imported anything from the USA or China (like on ebay) ? - and known the delays and costs and paperwork that are going to be added to a huge chunk of UK business and retailing
its utterly insane

Brexit may well necessitate hard borders between North and South

I'm not so sure and I've posted on here before about this. The border situation between NI and the Republic is well known to be super-sensitive. The EU would be wise to keep its beak out and let the Irish and British governments come up with a solution. There are plenty of anomalies across the EU (eg the Channel Islands which are not in the EU, yet are in the Common Travel Area).

It seems to work fairly well between Sweden and Norway - Norway is in the EEA but not in the customs union - I think there are a few patrols, but it's effectively an open border.

I don't know if anyone has already posted on the White Paper but what would people want in it?

My priorities would be:

UK continues to pay into and take part in ERASMUS, HORIZON etc

EU leaves UK and Ireland to sort out inner-Irish border issue - but is available to advise and help if needed.

An absolute guarantee that employment and consumer protection rights will be maintained - but I'm not sure this could ever happen because all you'd need is an Act of Parliament to reverse it again.

All EU citizens in the UK on 23 June to have an automatic right to remain for as long as they want. And the reverse to also be true.

UK citizens to be able to travel visa-free to the EU/EEA for up to 90 days minimum (and vice versa) for any reason - so you could have a very short-term work placement for example as well as holidays and just general travel. Students would be able to do language courses and the like.

Make work permits easy to get if you have to have a job offer before you come to the UK. And vice versa.

A special status for Gibraltar, given they voted overwhelmingly to stay.

People with more knowledge than I have can comment on trade, financial services passporting, EURATOM and the like.

"It seems to work fairly well between Sweden and Norway"

Because Norway has freedom of movement for EU citizens...

We can't have an open land border with the EU and control EU immigration.

Sure, but who knows what position EU negotiators might take or how UK responds?

If UK demand total control over their borders and ability to keep out non nationals, then this is going to be difficult to reconcile with an open border with the Republic. It's like leaving your back door wide open.

That could become contentious too, with UK looking suspiciously at border crossings, making an already volatile area more so.

The powers that be don't want a return to conflict, I agree, but I'm not sure there's a easy answer.

I think it is appalling to not have voted.

I have a friend would didn't vote, for what I think are very good reasons. He just didn't know who to vote for. He read loads, is very intelligent but he just couldn't work out what to do for the best. I have a lot more respect for him than somebody just putting a cross anywhere. I heard a manager at work encouraging somebody to vote who wasn't going to because they didn't feel they knew enough about it. Manager told them - it doesn't matter who you vote for as long as you vote, just vote for any side. ( :0 ) She then went on to say how important it is to vote. This attitude is what I think of as appalling. It might be fine in a GE but not in something like this.

I have a lot more respect for people who didn't vote because they didn't understand the issues (and it is hugely complicated) than I do for somebody who was equally clueless and voted anyway.

I have a lot more respect for people who didn't vote because they didn't understand the issues (and it is hugely complicated) than I do for somebody who was equally clueless and voted anyway.

So do I.

Or in people who think they understand what they voted for but who actually voted for the polar opposite.

The referendum should never have been held.

He still just doesn't know. He's worried, but thinks it might work out better for us out in the long run, but just doesn't know. I haven't spoken to him about since Trump came along though. We are in a very vulnerable position and the best option (but still much worse than being in the EU) is going to involve us sucking up to that awful racist.

it's good to know that so many people, in both camps,can see for certain into the future and potentially foresee the outcome, like trump it might work out it might not, who really knows ?
hopefully in a few years time when things have settled down a bit we can debate again, but there will still be side taking 'i told you so' which isn't really going to solve anything, any more than people slagging each other off now, which is a total waste of time imo because throwing insults isn't constructive and it makes the thrower look like a idiot

Thanks for your clarification, Wrong.

like trump it might work out, it might not

What can anyone say to that?

user1481838270
Thanks for the info re car manufacturing - are these UK manufacturers leaving the U.K. whether or not we trigger A50? Will they stay if we don't trigger A50 and if we remain in the single market?

like Trump, it might work out it might not, who really knows?
Pipsqueak, I love biting satire, or maybe I don't, let's all hope that everything turns out for the best. Then we'll all be able to have lashings of ginger beer!
Oh and The Daily Fail lazy journos can still foff and stop publishing MN threads.