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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To refuse eating or buying anything halal?

341 replies

ClaryIsTheBest · 24/01/2017 19:31

Is somebody unreasonable to refuse to buy or eat anything halal?

I'm not sure. I mean, everybody gets to choose what they want to eat (or not eat). But still...

OP posts:
YetAnotherSpartacus · 30/01/2017 11:42

Happy to eat meat that's electrocuted, don't want to eat meat that's been bludgeoned with a plank, fine

Seen a few quotes like this, including "Since halal meat is raised in the U.K" ... and I just wanted to say that 'meat' is not killed or raised. Animals are. Animals become meat when sold for our consumption. They do not live their lives as 'meat'.

user1471545174 · 30/01/2017 19:42

I notice that no-one came back on this thread to have a go at Spectre8 - and quite right too. But it does prove the point that atheists are just supposed to suck it up.

JassyRadlett · 31/01/2017 07:18

But it does prove the point that atheists are just supposed to suck it up.

I'm still trying to figure out what we're supposed to be 'sucking up'.

user1471545174 · 31/01/2017 07:59

You didn't come back aggressively on Spectre8's comments, Jassy - you had no answer to her complaint. Yet her solution - choice - is identical to mine.

It's quite easy to understand.

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 31/01/2017 08:02

Oh the irony of this thread a few days after Trump bans Muslim refugees. Sorry is it just me that finds the whole topic very prejudiced ?

hackmum · 31/01/2017 08:08

Tippexy: "People can't 'be' prejudice."

Seems to be part of a general trend of leaving the "d" off the end of certain words. "Bias" instead of "biased" is a common example. Drives me up the wall.

Concerns about the ethics of halal meat are bogus. If you don't like cruelty to animals, don't slaughter them. Don't eat meat at all. This New Humanist article explains why halal slaughter is probably less cruel than other forms of slaughter:

newhumanist.org.uk/articles/2382/there-will-be-blood

Megatherium · 31/01/2017 08:51

I don't see why you're so excited about Spectre8's comments, user. She is a member of a religion that specifically prohibits eating halal meat. Her position is consistent and justifiable by reference to the requirements of her religion, and unless anyone wants to start contesting the fundamental tenets of Hinduism (which would be a massive derail) there is nothing to argue about. There is no such requirement in relation to atheism or indeed Christianity. And it is possible to ensure that the meat you buy is non-halal. It may be inconvenient, but if you feel strongly about it why not put up with a little inconvenience?

JassyRadlett · 31/01/2017 08:56

You didn't come back aggressively on Spectre8's comments, Jassy - you had no answer to her complaint. Yet her solution - choice - is identical to mine.

Where's the aggression? I'm asking a question that you seem unwilling to answer.

Spectre explained that her religious belief prevents her eating halal meat. Atheism involves precisely zero beliefs, so it is not an analogous situation.

I find it pretty tiresome when people try to tag their own personal secular values or preferences on to their atheism because it encourages the idea that atheism is a belief system with direct equivalence to religious faith, rather than the exact opposite.

My understanding from your posts is: your personal beliefs/values and your antipathy to religion mean that you object to eating meat that has had a prayer said near it, that has been slaughtered in a way you otherwise find acceptable. You don't believe that prayer has any value but you don't wish to facilitate religion or people practising their own religions through your own spending. (I assume you don't shop at the Entertainer, for example.)

So to fit your personal secular values (not a requirement of your atheism) you do not wish to buy halal meat, regardless of the method of slaughter. That meat exists in many supermarkets or restaurants, as pointed out upthread.

The choice exists. Exercising it involves a small amount of effort or a small inconvenience (eg choosing a pork or veggie meal in a restaurant serving halal meat, just as Muslims, Jews and Sikhs have to make other choices if they don't know the provenance of the meat, people concerned about fishing don't order fish if they don't know it's sustainable).

I don't intend any of this as aggressive. I'm simply trying to figure out where you're coming from, as a fellow atheist, because I don't think 'I don't want to eat halal meat' is inherent to atheism.

user1471545174 · 31/01/2017 09:10

Megatherium, Spectre8 is Sikh, not Hindu Grin Grin There is a - significant - difference!

And give it up, Jassy - you'd start a fight in an empty room. It's a double standard and you know it.

JassyRadlett · 31/01/2017 09:21

No, I really don't, otherwise I'd agree with you - I've had my mind changed and eyes opened plenty of times by good arguments on Mumsnet, and I've admitted it when I've been wrong, or missed something, or made stupid assumptions.

But if you're all about playing the person, not the issue, I'll help. If you check my posting history, you'll see me being accused of irrationality or religion-hating for campaigning against compulsory worship in schools, which requires students to either participate or be visibly excluded from their peers, against clergy in Parliament, against faith-based selection. I just don't understand this one as an atheist cause.

Why attack me, rather than actually engage with the question, unless you don't have any answers?

Atheism isn't a belief system. It has no tenets and no requirements in terms of practice or belief. That's fairly uncontroversial, surely?

Megatherium · 31/01/2017 18:44

Sorry for my confusion re Spectre8. However, I notice that you seem unable to respond to the substantive point.

Spectre8 · 31/01/2017 22:44

Whole thing is pointless to be honest there is enough market/buyers for shops to make money if they sold both types of meat so why don't they just do that.

JassyRadlett · 01/02/2017 06:56

Whole thing is pointless to be honest there is enough market/buyers for shops to make money if they sold both types of meat so why don't they just do that.

It's much cheaper for slaughterhouses to run one process than running two that then run into different packaging and labelling runs, etc.

And there's usually a big gap between what people say they'll buy and what they'll actually buy if there's a price premium involved.

I get that more choice would be preferable - like I've said, stunned/not stunned labelling would make my life easier, and obviously it would make things simpler for you. But the commercial realities are what they are - unless you get labelling regulations on this, the producers are unlikely to shift.

user1485931854 · 01/02/2017 07:02

I refuse to buy halal

sashh · 01/02/2017 07:06

so significant unused portions are sold off for other purposes - not labelled as kosher. Sounds a bit implausible and conspiracy-theory I know, but the source seems legit.

They are not labeled as Kosher because they are not.

Difficultyear2015 · 01/02/2017 07:11

Eating meat means dead animal. Shot, throat cut, electrocuted. I don't think anyone is sure which is most humane.

You think milk is any better?
I am not too sure why vegetarians are so accepting of that.

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