To refuse eating or buying anything halal?

[ClaryIsTheBest]

Is somebody unreasonable to refuse to buy or eat anything halal?

I'm not sure. I mean, everybody gets to choose what they want to eat (or not eat). But still...

I only ever hear sky fairy on mumsnet.

I just want humanely slaughtered natural meat without skyfairy praying and without unnatural additives. This appears to be too much to ask - why?

Because the praying affects you precisely not at all. You don't believe the words have any meaning, so what does it matter whether it's a prayer, Wordsworth or Queen's greatest hits?

And I'm an atheist.

Because the praying affects you precisely not at all. You don't believe the words have any meaning, so what does it matter whether it's a prayer, Wordsworth or Queen's greatest hits?

I don't knowingly eat, don't buy and wouldn't serve halal or kosher meat, because I don't like religion, any religion. I avoid halal because I don't like the practise of prayer/ worship and don't wish to contribute money to the practise by purchasing meat produced in this way.

Just because the words don't effect me because I don't believe them, doesn't mean I shouldn't care its going on.

Then I'd suggest going vegetarian, for ethical reasons. Because prayer isn't a welfare issue and is unlikely to be covered by assurance schemes.

I really don't understand why people get het up about people saying a few words of prayer around slaughter animals but not about anything else that is said in their vicinity. If you think that prayer makes the meat undesirable, do you want to ban bad language also?

I really don't understand why people get het up about people saying a few words of prayer around slaughter animals but not about anything else that is said in their vicinity. If you think that prayer makes the meat undesirable, do you want to ban bad language also?

Because essentially forcing people to buy meat that has been prayed for by a particular religion, which adheres to a particular god, is a bit shit and goes against the general principles of a secular/non-denominational society?

It'd be akin to going to a predominantly Muslim country, slaughtering the meat in a way that is dictated by the Christian religion while saying a prayer to the Christian god over it, and then making the meat so widespread that Muslims have virtually no choice but to buy it.

OP you would be stumped at my DC's school as I do believe (please correct me though if I have been misinformed) that all of Birmingham City Council's dinner providers provide halal only.

But equally we're forcing people to buy meat that has been sworn and blasphemed over, and no-one ever seems to demand that profanity be banned in slaughterhouses.

Your analogy doesn't work, Pluto, because there is nothing in the Christian religion requiring prayers to be said over slaughter animals or that ascribes any value to anything of that kind. And in my experience people who express an objection to halal meat are rarely practising Christians.

Because essentially forcing people to buy meat that has been prayed for by a particular religion, which adheres to a particular god, is a bit shit and goes against the general principles of a secular/non-denominational society?

But we don't have a secular or non-denominational society. We have an established church, clergy in the legislature, state-funded faith schools, compulsory worship of a broadly Christian nature in all state schools....

And if you're worried about the words being said near the meat being somehow offensive to certain groups, should blasphemy (according to the rules of all mainstream religions) also be prohibited, so as not to cause offence or taint the meat for the groups for whom blasphemy is unacceptable? Blasphemy is just as unacceptable for many religions as prayers to a different god - in some they are one and the same, and in others saying bad things about deities is a worse transgression.

Logic is a bitch.

What an utterly pointless tedious subject to waste one's time on?!

Every other month the subject of Halal versus non-Halal comes up on Mumsnet and people get worked up, you'll be forgiven to think Lucifer is coming down to Planet earth.

I'm still waiting to hear of someone who has died after eating Halal meat.

Thanks for that ele
Really - I think more of us should do this

Would LOVE a school trip - maybe 😩

Just to add - most of the approved vets in UK slaughterhouses are Spanish (not enough jobs back in Spain a few years back) and the slaughter crews are mainly Polish and from other Eastern European countries. Pretty much all Catholics who pray for the animals in their care as they are killed.
Do the people objecting to background sound of prayer object to that, or is it only official slaughterhouse policy that's a problem? And again, why?

I really don't see why non-religious people should "go vegetarian". I don't see why an atheist should be marginalised in a notionally Christian country because of the greater consideration given to Islam. That just makes no sense at all.

But we don't have a secular or non-denominational society. We have an established church, clergy in the legislature, state-funded faith schools, compulsory worship of a broadly Christian nature in all state schools....

Well, I live in a secular country (no official religion) and I'd rather like to keep it that way. None of what you said above applies where I live, yet halal meat is virtually unavoidable unless you buy from a butcher.

England isn't the only country in the world.

Logic is a bitch.

Oh please. There are many ways in which Christianity is privileged in this country and people of no religion are treated as lesser. I honestly can't see how this is one of the bug transgressors - having a recording of a prayer playing nearby while the animal is slaughtered.

How does that make you or me marginalised? Does it mean we can't eat the meat, because of our beliefs? No, we have no religious beliefs at all, let alone those that prevent the eating of meat that has had fictional poetry said nearby.

Money going to Islam? Hardly. It enables producers of all sorts to produce meat more cheaply overall - which is why so many supermarkets and restaurant chains use it.

But if you can't even be bothered to take the two minutes it took me to find this article about what meat sold by different supermarkets is halal, or drop an email to your local supermarket or call a local butcher to find out what their practices are, your concern does seem rather surface.

If your ethical code really does stop you buying or consuming products that have come into contact with prayer from any faith - well, sometimes you have to be prepared to make a little extra effort if your ethical code is 'stronger' than others. I'm worried about welfare, so I expend the extra effort to make sure I'm only buying meat that's certified by schemes whose standards I agree with.

You don't want prayers near your food? You're going to have to do a little homework.

I wish you could see how convoluted and silly all that sounds, Jassy.

It shouldn't be that difficult, should it? For a start, there'd be commercial advantages to be had in offering a non-halal option. And it's only fair.

I'm devil's advocating a bit because I eat very little meat, but I do agree with the principle of non-halal meat being available in ordinary supermarkets in England.

For a start, there'd be commercial advantages to be had in offering a non-halal option.

Quite the opposite, which is why most producers do it this way, and most retailers and caterers choose halal meat as the cheaper option. Their meat can be eaten by Muslims and non-Muslims alike, which vastly simplifies many steps of the process.

And it's only fair.

Seriously? I think the number of things about a theistic state that are unfair and socially divisive and have measurable impacts on the lives of many people is significant, and 'someone prayed near my food' is nowhere near the top. When people focus on this one I'm afraid it does come across as wanting to make it harder for other people to practise their religion.

You care about an issue? You need to be prepared to put the work in. Campaign. Write to the producers and explain to them why they've got it wrong on what's commercially beneficial to them. Email a retailer and find it what they actually sell. Spend two minutes on google.

Living in a multicultural, tolerant society means that sometimes we rub up against things we don't like, or don't believe in, or feel weird. We can either engage in a bit of give and take - evaluate why it makes us feel icky, see if the issue really affects us and if so, change our own behaviours a little to help us all rub along together. Or we can solidly plough our own furrow and complain vociferously every time the system does not cater to our exact tastes.

I think religion is total bollocks, I think the state should be secular, but I don't have any great interest in stopping anyone practising their own religion as long as they don't seek to impose their beliefs on me.

My own view is that a prayer said near my food isn't imposing anything on me, because no one is asking me or my kids to join the prayer or even be present while it's said. It means the producers' costs are lower so my meat is cheaper, so it even benefits me. I have other issues about theism in society that trouble me greatly, and I put extra effort into those areas - things like education.

Your own views may differ, and that's fine. But it doesn't mean the system needs to be set up to cater to your specific ethics, any more than they do mine. There are products and producers out there that are fine for what you say you want (I even provided a helpful news article). They may cost a little more and you may have to go a little further. Beliefs and ethics come at a cost sometimes.

I find people who refuse to eat halal in certain situations, for example, nandos in my area is halal, so people who refuse to eat here are simply prejudice. Its pathetic. If you only eat halal food because you are muslim and islam states you must eat halal foods then great. You have your belief and your loyal to it. But for an atheist man/woman to refuse to eat halal food, but eat kosher, or processed or fatty foods. Is just a being a prejudice twat. Im sure that person wouldnt rock up on holiday to turkey and refuse to eat the food. U wont eat the meat coz its halal but ul eat there jelly? Which is halal too because it has no gelatine. Or you order feom the takeway curry and rice. What you think there serving? I think its ridiculous. If your hungry your in nandos/halal resturant and refuse to eat then starve and stop bitching

Boobeesh, are you a fan of toleration and do you like diversity? I bet you think you are an adherent of both but actually that post shows you're exactly the opposite. You'll tolerate anything except dissent eh?

Thank you BillSykesDog - I've given up trying to reason with them

Boosh True. Halal does not start and end with just meat. For those of you who won't eat Halal or Kosher meat- do you refuse everything Halal/Kosher or is it just meat?

All meat at dcs school is halal here too.
A lot of our local food places and quite a few big chains also use halal.

Sikhs cannot eat halal meat as it is specifically stated in our 'holy book' that meat killed ritualistically is not be consumed. So I am sorry its not just words that I can just ignore if I am to follow my religion.

I don't understand why its so difficult for shops to just clearly label the meat and offer both. There is clearly a market for both halal and non-halal meat. Its disappointing that I can't just pop into a supermarket and buy meat and have to plan when I can get to a local butchers (which is always on a weekend since they don't open late on weekdays) to get what I need.

@Booshbeesh do you mean prejudiced?! Your post doesn't make sense otherwise. People can't "be" prejudice.

Thank you BillSykesDog - I've given up trying to reason with them

Translates as: I can't produce any credible reasoning against "their" arguments.