To refuse eating or buying anything halal?

[ClaryIsTheBest]

Is somebody unreasonable to refuse to buy or eat anything halal?

I'm not sure. I mean, everybody gets to choose what they want to eat (or not eat). But still...

In my view, the job of slaughtering animals should go to the best qualified regardless of what religion they belong to.

Who says it doesn't? Does something being Halal mean that the person doing the slaughtering has to be Muslim?

Daily mash is satire obviously, and I get that, but as the UK is unlikely to stop eating meat (or even less of it), it's still a conversation worth having.

I have not eaten meat since 1982, but I understand that how meat is slaughtered is still a concern generally (and not just to vegetarians and vegans).

As ritual slaughter is connected to religion, some religious and non religious folk are not keen. They may not want their food said under prayer (either because they are not religious or don't follow that particular religion).
I don't think that is unreasonable.

I know some people will attach that view to daily mail readers etc, but I think that is unreasonable.
It's too easy to close the views of others down by labelling them intolerant or worse.

I used to work for a halal and kosher food accreditation agency. Kosher and halal meat is slaughtered in nearly an identical way, often both sets of prayers are said concurrently. Fair enough OP that you're boycotting halal meat, but if you don't actively boycott kosher meat you're just a wingey racist.

The OP may not be a racist at all.
If she lives in an area where halal meat is widely advertised - but kosher is not, kosher slaughter may not relevant to what she buys.
I used to live in an area (20 years ago) where there was a kosher section in the supermarket. Not seen anything like that where I live now and no restaurants offering kosher slaughtered meat near me.

It depends where she lives really. I think it's unfair to label her as racist, she may well not see kosher slaughtered meat advertised where she lives.

Why do so many people handwring over how an animal dies, yet not give a shot about the quality of life it has before?

I think many people (but not everyone ) care about both.

Don't say sensible things like that based on actual experience you have @Astoria7974 - it'll just get ignored.

Astoria
I personally do not boycott halal or kosher. Or, at least, I admittedly haven't thought about this up to now, so I may revise my opinion. I actually even have family members that stick to their faith's dietary restrictions and therefore eat kosher, so, yeah.
I also care very much about the animal's live before slaughter. Which is why I prefer organic or hunted meat.

Racist? I would like to think I'm not.

This is not about me boycotting halal or kosher (or about veganism, btw!). Although I do think there are justifiable reasons for boycotting halal restaurants or products with a halal certificate that aren't racist.

Quite Bonfire, some people don't want to hear the reasonable argument.

Why do so many people handwring over how an animal dies, yet not give a shot about the quality of life it has before?

I think the most stressful part of most cows, pigs and sheeps lives is the when the are being transported between the farm and the place of slaughter. Animals can be transported huge distances across borders. I can't see how that can possible be done humanely.

Andrew, I don't want to ban halal or kosher production, I just want proper labelling so people can make informed choices and non-halal (and non vegetarian) alternatives available in places like hospitals where you have little choice but to eat what is served.

And as far as Israeli pharmaceuticals go, they have one large pharmaceutical company which makes generic drugs. It's very unlikely that the NHS uses them as there are plenty of generic drug manufacturers in the U.K. who don't have prohibitive import costs. But if they do, being generic drugs alternatives will be easily available.

So not wanting to take Israeli pharmaceuticals is extremely unlikely ever to cause serious or life threatening issues.

Halal/non-halal labelling is pretty meaningless. What you need is labelling on whether it was stunned before slaughter or not - but producers and retailers won't go for it because most people are too squeamish to be able to face the reality of how meat is produced.

Hmm

I'm a vegetarian but the rest of my family aren't. It's a personal thing. But the meat I do buy/cook for them is always ethically farmed/free range etc as are all our dairy products - that's the line I feel comfortable with.

I have a friend who eats only halal. When she comes, I feed her veggie- I'm anxious about the stunning (little evidence for effectiveness) and it's very hard to find organic free range halal where we live! It has never been an issue. Similarly we eat out veggie places. No problem.

This interesting RSPCA fact sheet explains something I previously didn't know, which is that kosher meat does enter the general food supply because the back half of the cow/sheep can't be certified as kosher without special preparation that isn't carried out in the U.K., so significant unused portions are sold off for other purposes - not labelled as kosher. Sounds a bit implausible and conspiracy-theory I know, but the source seems legit.

Yanbu. I don't think anyone should be obliged to eat anything that has been blessed by an alternate religion to their own, be it halal, kosher or British standard meat. Muslim friends have said halal shouldn't be stunned, I disagree with this so my kids don't eat halal (I don't eat any meat so irrelevant). I avoid it on school menus and don't eat in restaurants serving halal.

I'm not keen on meat production full stop though

I raise livestock. I raise them well, with respect an a smidgen of affection. When they go 'down the road' it is always hard. Regardless of the religion of the slaughter man (or woman) I want them to die as quickly and humanely as possible. But I know that they'll have been in a wagon for hours, chased down a race into holding pens to let them settle because stress affects the meat and then forced into a line stinking of blood to be stunned (or not) before slaughter. The last few seconds or minutes of that are just a piece of the puzzle.

I've seen a campaign for cc tv for the slaughter of horses. I think it should be universal. Dairy cattle have a much worse time of it. And don't get me started on why there's ranting and raving about badger protection when industrial slaughter of our livestock is imo a much bigger welfare concern.

I'm a chef so am used to dealing with butchers and different suppliers- most meat that you eat in restaurants and pubs nowadays is halal. It makes more sense financially for the butcher and the pubs/restaurants to to be able to serve as many people as possible.

I have no problem with it. The only difference is a recorded prayer being played.

Why is it ok for a Sikh to refuse to eat halal for religious reasons but racist for an atheist or Christian to refuse to eat it?

Trainspotting, Sikhs are expressly forbidden to eat halal. Christians and Atheists are not expressly forbidden but many of them feel personally that it goes against their conscience or they feel uncomfortable eating something which has been through a ritual of another religion. But the PC pro halal brigade generally refuse to accept that unless your religion has a direct diktat forbidding it you have no right to have a personal objection based on how your conscience dictates you should practice your religion.

Which is hugely fucking hypocritical because there is no direct diktat in Islam that you must wear a burka or not handle alcohol if you work in a supermarket or not shake hands with women. But many Muslims choose to do this because their conscience tells them that this is the correct way to practice their religion. Yet exactly the same people who passionately defend their right to do this will deny that Christians or atheists have the right to express their beliefs in the way they feel fit by not eating halal.

Personally I think all of them should be allowed as religious expression should be entirely free as long as it does not harm other people in the process. But there is a big rump of people who like to make a big song and dance about how 'tolerant' they are who only actually support freedom of religious expression for Muslims.

Christians and Atheists are not expressly forbidden but many of them feel personally that it goes against their conscience or they feel uncomfortable eating something which has been through a ritual of another religion

Do they? Why? For Christians, all that has happened is that a prayer has been said in a different language to the same god that they worship. I'm sure they don't object to grace being said in German, French, or Latin, so why would they object to Arabic?

As for atheists - I don't know about any others, but it really doesn't bother me if someone has chosen to say a few words of woo over what I eat, in whatever context; it's all meaningless, and doesn't offend my conscience in any way.

But what's wrong with saying the Sikh religion is being racist banning halal because it's Muslim? Why is it ok for one group because it's religious doctrine?

Personally I feel that anyone should be able to boycott it (agree with your reasons bill plus those who say religion has no place in the food chain in the uk) but there is a double standard when it's racist for me to say that but if I were Sikh I'd just be following my religion so the same behaviour is fine

DBiL is a sheep farmer. All his lamb is halal and exported to the ME, except for a couple he keeps back for family consumption (he grows the best lamb I have ever tasted). He is meticulous about the care of his livestock, drives them to the abattoir himself (less than an hour from farm) and stays until they are all slaughtered. His sheep live well and he makes sure they die as humanely as possible.

The notion that halal = inhumane is complete nonsense.

Do they? Why? For Christians, all that has happened is that a prayer has been said in a different language to the same god that they worship

They're monotheist but it's not as simple as having 'the same God', for example Christians believe God is the Holy Trinity which is not something Muslims believe. It's a complex questions which not all theologians agree on so obviously not all Christians agree on either. And in the different scriptures of the different religions the 'God' differs in how they desire their followers to behave or practice their religion. So to say 'oh it's just the same god' is a huge oversimplification. Even within Christianity different sects will or won't finish the Lord's Prayer with 'For thime is the Kingdom, the power and the glory because they don't believe it. The content of the prayer matters (or it would be pointless). And the religions differ in so many other ways that the content of the prayer makes a big difference as it may contain references which are at odds with a belief in Christianity.

It's nothing to do with it being in a different language, it's because it's a different prayer saying different things they don't believe in.

If you're going to follow that logic you could just as well say that Muslims might as well take Holy Communion because it's just a bit of bread that a prayer's been said over to the same God as theirs. And I'm sure if you did say that you would be told how highly offensive it was and how ignorant of the differences between religions it showed you to be.

OP, you wrote about this on reddit but with a slightly different twist in the story.

So I am a bit confused as to what your angle is.