This puts me off Girl Guides.

[NormaStanleyFletcher]

I always expected Girl Guides to be a fully female environment. And WTF about not telling parents if it isn't?

"Thanks for your email, and taking the time to read our updated equality and diversity policy. If an adult self-identifies as a woman then they are able to undertake all adult roles in guiding including becoming a Leader. This means that they may also, if they wish, make their Promise.

With regards to sleeping arrangements at residential events, it is important to work with the trans individual when organising accommodation rather than making assumptions or arrangements without consulting them. Some people may not feel comfortable sharing accommodation so in this case an alternative option should be provided. As membership of Girlguiding is decided based on gender identity (the way a person self-identifies their gender identity), there is no requirement to provide any documentation to evidence their transition. Please also be advised that it is not best practice to tell parents that a trans person will be attending a residential event.

You may find our Let’s Talk about Gender and Gender Identity resources helpful to support any conversations around this topic, should the need arise. At the back of each document, there are also some links to recommended external sources which will also provide some helpful advice on this.

I hope this is of help, but if you have any further queries, please don’t hesitate to get in touch."

Drs can be easily tricked. Given the lengths that some posters believe peodophiles will go to to have access to seeing "Brownies in their pants", surely, seeing a Dr is a small hurdle, easily overcome.

Great. Small hurdle suits me.

Splandy I am so sorry for experiences. It is terrible you had then but thank you for sharing.

Thanks for the reply, ail. Not so much for the unpleasant tone. But - you having lead the way in ditching your manners for sarcasm - I'll respond that although I picked up your reference to DH and thus knew you were a woman, I can entirely understand why other posters assumed you were a man.

They did so because your tone, which combines an exaggerated perception of your own intellect with unacknowledged cluelessness on the topic, is far more frequently found in men. Oh, and in passing, I also find it hard to believe that anyone who expresses themselves as you do can have a linguistics PhD.

I don't expect you like my comments. I feel emboldened to make them because other posters are so much more polite. Perhaps you don't realise how rude you are. All the time, to every poster. It's tiring to read and, though I have engaged with you now, I don't plan on doing so much.

Ali

You can it bullshit but you would look silly given the huge amount of data and research on the subject

As a man you don't get to talk about women as victims in a patronising and dismissive way.

You sound more and more like an MRA.

Argh.

I'm in a salon having my nails done a 6ft TW with clear other issues has gone into a room with a young woman to have his eyebrows done. She looks awkward

which combines an exaggerated perception of your own intellect with unacknowledged cluelessness on the topic, is far more frequently found in men.

And with that, WRAs, I'm out.

You can't argue with stupidity, or entitlement, or bigotry, or ignorance, or snowflakery...

Arse, Door, don't hit

I won't.

Have a lovely afternoon.

You can't argue with stupidity, or entitlement, or bigotry, or ignorance, or snowflakery

Too right, hence why we cannot argue with you.

Well that was pleasant!

🍿

As some said that your daughters had gone to male spaces (Sea Cadets and Scouts), is it only womens spaces that need protection because they are poor victims?

That would be me. Sea cadets and scouts are not male spaces they are mixed. She is not wanting to join a 'Gentleman's Club' or male only golf club.

Italiangreyhound, thanks. I hope it didn't come across as wanting to tell people how bad things were for me, that wasn't my intention at all. I think they are very minor experiences compared to what many other women have gone through. I've been subjected to three attempted rapes. At least they weren't successful. The fact that I even think like that given the list of sexual assaults and sexual harassment I can easily reel off is disgusting, but it is so normal.

I was just attempting to give outabout an insight into the life of a normal girl. He seems like a nice guy and maybe just didn't realise how 'everyday' a lot of this stuff is for girls, or the messages that they receive from a very young age. And the reason why this girls only space is such a good idea and should be protected. My husband was quite shocked when I told him all of the experiences I've had, simply because I'm female. I don't feel upset at all. I feel angry that I didn't do something or say something, but I was a nice, quiet, polite girl. That's the way I'd been raised. I wouldn't want to cause a fuss and that's why I was such an easy target.

I think a lot of men don't get it and find it irritating when women say things like this, because they either think they are personally being blamed because they are male, or because they haven't seen it and struggle to believe that it could be such an everyday occurance for so many women. Saying 'boys and girls can be just as mean as each other' is a bit naive. Anybody can be mean. We're not talking about meanness between individual children in one small group. I'm talking about the bigger picture.

I believe that wherever possible there should be gender equality and in truth there is very practically nothing that a woman can't do as well as a man. Whether they choose to is a different issue.
My former boss was a female.
I appreciate women, cakes and trains, I don't wish to have sex with any of them.

in truth there is very practically nothing that a woman can't do as well as a man.

Entirely agree. So why is it men do STEM, women do cleaning, men occupy positions of authority, women are the main victims of sexual assault, women are paid less, women are constantly put aside to make room for men.

I was also a SAHD for my daughter, she is very normal.
I was also chair of the local NCT group for a year because no one else wanted to do the job. I was not 'one of the ladies' (obviously) but welcomed as a parent caring for a young child.

👏

Ah, that's the interesting thing. Whatever they choose. Choices are not made in a vacuum. By the time you are an adult, you have soaked up years and years worth of messages around you. Not overt messages, but they are all there, all the time. Btw, I didn't choose to be assaulted and harassed repeatedly as a standard part of my life. Men believe they have the right to do that. And why do they believe that? What messages are they getting from a young age which tell them that they are better? And these are not a very small group of men, either. It has happened to me with a variety of people, places, ages. Enough to tell me that those attitudes aren't uncommon.

Only last month I had a man in my house speak down to me, speak over me and explain things to me. Because he was a man and I'm a silly little woman living on a council estate with a baby on my lap. He worked for an estate agency and had come to value the house. I raised the topic of inflation during our discussions. I was then treated to a physical demonstration, whitch even involved putting a pound under the cushion of my settee, holding his finger up in a 'don't speak yet' manner, then bringing it out and explaining to me that it is STILL only a physical pound coin, yet its value has now changed. This was interspersed by me attempting to speak and being shut down. I study accountancy. I was part of a group for gifted children as a teen, because of my mathematic skills. I raised the topic of inflation. Would he have spoken that way to my husband, who doesn't understand money in the slightest? I very much doubt it. It's not a big deal, of course it's not. It didn't hurt me, it hasn't affected anything. I let him get on with it. But it is just one more time I've been spoken to like that by a man. That is the kind of everyday thing I'm talking about. If you complain about it, you're told to get a grip because it's not a big deal. But when your whole life is full of those examples, it IS a big deal.

outabout, then it sounds like you are brilliantly placed to understand exactly what I'm talking about.

And?

Have you read splandy's post about what real life is like for women - that will include your daughter? Do you not see that a female only environment, if she, or any other female, wants to access it, is a hugely valuable thing?

Many don't have any particular need or desire to access female only spaces. But lots and lots of female girls and women DO. Can you really not understand why that's important?

To take another dis-empowered group - can you not understand why a disabled person might want to access a disability support group, run by and for disabled people, without an able bodied person encroaching on that space and saying 'Oh but I am disabled - I've got a stubbed toe', and proceeding to tell all the others that life's actually fine and dandy for them so they don't need any support at all and they're all making a big fuss?

Wow Splandy, what a huge arse

I wish once, just once, someone who disagrees could tackle this issue without trying to shut people up by saying bigot. To talk about science, facts, figures, evidence, statistics, add links, studies, etc - anything other than - it just IS.

Golightlyholly "That said, I think I'd like to be told if a trans person was going to be in the room with my child but at the same time, the modern, progressive person I try to be thinks that it shouldn't be an issue, that I should trust that the guides will vet the person, no matter how they identify"

It is clear guides 'vets' their leaders but not the children who join. So upper age limit child up to 18 no vetting (can anyone confirm?) Beyond 18 but not a leader not sure.

You won't 've told if anyone on your Guide group, leader or guide, is trans (make) or if in a pack holiday/camp. Not just you won't be told who, you won't be told at all.

(Make not make!)