This puts me off Girl Guides.

[NormaStanleyFletcher]

I always expected Girl Guides to be a fully female environment. And WTF about not telling parents if it isn't?

"Thanks for your email, and taking the time to read our updated equality and diversity policy. If an adult self-identifies as a woman then they are able to undertake all adult roles in guiding including becoming a Leader. This means that they may also, if they wish, make their Promise.

With regards to sleeping arrangements at residential events, it is important to work with the trans individual when organising accommodation rather than making assumptions or arrangements without consulting them. Some people may not feel comfortable sharing accommodation so in this case an alternative option should be provided. As membership of Girlguiding is decided based on gender identity (the way a person self-identifies their gender identity), there is no requirement to provide any documentation to evidence their transition. Please also be advised that it is not best practice to tell parents that a trans person will be attending a residential event.

You may find our Let’s Talk about Gender and Gender Identity resources helpful to support any conversations around this topic, should the need arise. At the back of each document, there are also some links to recommended external sources which will also provide some helpful advice on this.

I hope this is of help, but if you have any further queries, please don’t hesitate to get in touch."

out

Do you honestly not understand why people are annoyed at the following statement

If the child does not want to go they will express it some way to understanding parents.

can you not see how it can be construed as victim blaming

GG used to cater for that demand, empowering girls to ignore gender stereotypes and be themselves. Tragically GGUK has decided that actually gender is actually a very real concept, and more important than sex, despite the overwhelming majority of evidence to the contrary.

This ^^ is what makes me sad/angry about this GG policy.

It's downright fucking offensive to women to claim that you 'feel like a woman' and are now the same as them, because what women really boil down to is just liking dresses, liking makeup, liking hanging around with other women and talking about men... I'd really like to know exactly what those feelings are, to be honest. If they are different to the guesses I've just made. I can't think of any legitimate ways of feeling like a woman because I am a woman and I have none of them. Being desperately unhappy in your own body and mentally unwell is not the same as being a woman.

Girl guides are expecting the women within their organisation to accept this. Reinforcing that girls have these stereotypical features and boys have these, so these boys are now girls. It's insane.

outabout thanks but no, I wanted GG as I thought it was. Understanding is key. Some sex segregation is empowering, if not, why bother with a girl only club!

"If the child does not want to go they will express it some way to understanding parents."

What if the child does want to go, because she is not aware that her guide leader is actually a rapist?

Transboys are female
No they're not.

What is a transboy?

What is a female?

I honestly don't know, it seems to depend who I talk to.

To the person who said that boys need to learn. Why do girls need to give up their safe space to help boys understand not to treat them as lesser? They don't exist to help further boys understanding. They exist in their own bloody right. I went to a mixed school and was constantly harassed, mocked, made to feel less important. I once built up the courage to tell my parents that it was happening and they laughed and told me he just fancied me. I was bright enough to work out the advice I should have been given and put an end to it myself with that particular boy.

My son has me as a parent. I've done all I can to teach him that sexism is wrong. This worked very well until he went to school. I hear all sorts of things from him now, all sorts of stereotypes. He doesn't need to go to girl guides. Girls need to go to girl guides.

Of course they are. Female is a biological term, not an identity based one. Young girls with gender dysphoria are female.

Well it will filter down to girls sports as well. Gitls will start being replaced in sports teams by boys - maybe not a huge amount obviously - but fir every trans girl that gets a olace or takes a medal - a girl is losing out.

This is already happening. One of the big music awards (might be brits) has a TW nominated for one of female slots. One female has now lost a place and possibly a male will win instead of a female. Progress, but for who?

Here we go again. Schools, youth organisations would treat a trans staff member the same. They could be many years post transition.

And i'll say it again. If these males had any scriple or cared at all about women and girls - they wouldn't be doing this. Happily pushing in whether they are welcome or not and competing against women and girls and in some cases - crowing when they win over their female competitors.

A transboy is female.

What do you think "transition" means exactly?

venus
No they really, really aren't. And they have absolutely no right to be in women/girl's safe spaces.
Boys with a penis are just that, boys and should not be allowed to invade girl's changing rooms and activities.

If we go on like this and don't fight it, in twenty years time, the UK government will announce that the fight for gender equality (not sex equality, that won't exist as a concept anymore) is over; we're all equal now.

50% of MP's will be women, 50% of board directors, 50% of top surgeons, academics, financiers, lawyers, etc. 50% of rapists will be women too and 50% of prisoners. Women will own 50% of the wealth in this country and will earn the same as men.

No one will worry that 80% of the group "women" in the top groups (and prisoners) will be transwomen. There will be no reason to do research into how real women are doing, because that will only encourage all those ante diluvian transphobes.

Meanwhile, guess who'll still be doing the low paid and unpaid work and guess who will still be bearing the brunt of male violence? It won't just be MRA's who deny it, it will be EVERY fucking one, including governments, charities and organisations set up to promote equality.

Wake up Women.

Well said basil

Transboys are females who want to be boys. They can get pregnant and give birth.

I know it's confusing.

Punk, i thought you meant transboy, the term for a female trans child who feels she is a boy. I agree it is very confusing, but I agree boys and men have no place in women's sex segregated spaces.

Round of applause for Basil!

What Basil said, absolutely.

Hear, hear, Basil! post.

Venus, I'm sorry. You're right it's very confusing but it was my mistake

No worries, Punk!

Welcome to the the world of the headfuck Punk. It takes some time to get your head around it all. Because it's bonkers