This puts me off Girl Guides.

[NormaStanleyFletcher]

I always expected Girl Guides to be a fully female environment. And WTF about not telling parents if it isn't?

"Thanks for your email, and taking the time to read our updated equality and diversity policy. If an adult self-identifies as a woman then they are able to undertake all adult roles in guiding including becoming a Leader. This means that they may also, if they wish, make their Promise.

With regards to sleeping arrangements at residential events, it is important to work with the trans individual when organising accommodation rather than making assumptions or arrangements without consulting them. Some people may not feel comfortable sharing accommodation so in this case an alternative option should be provided. As membership of Girlguiding is decided based on gender identity (the way a person self-identifies their gender identity), there is no requirement to provide any documentation to evidence their transition. Please also be advised that it is not best practice to tell parents that a trans person will be attending a residential event.

You may find our Let’s Talk about Gender and Gender Identity resources helpful to support any conversations around this topic, should the need arise. At the back of each document, there are also some links to recommended external sources which will also provide some helpful advice on this.

I hope this is of help, but if you have any further queries, please don’t hesitate to get in touch."

Yes Venus

I don't feel threatened physically, i'm not scared - i'm just angry and insulted that males who do not have women's well being at heart (many of whom seem to actively hste women) are getting to redifine everything that rrlates to women and gorce women to accept ALL their demands

I just can't.

[So that's your answer - there are 'bad women' too? I can't even be arsed to quote male sexual violence stats to you as opposed to female.]

Yes there are statistics for a 'general population' but in GG and Scouting and other children focused organisations there is far greater regulation and monitoring. All leaders and where appropriate, young leaders are told to be on the lookout for untoward behaviour by anyone and the system for reporting suspicions is rigorous. If a child falls over and grazes their knee, as a parent you can pick the child up and comfort them, as Scout (and presumably GG leader) this is not permissible without a responsible witness present.
Of course children are not stupid and if they feel threatened by a situation will show it in some way. I am not saying it can't happen as sadly the world is an imperfect place but in the GG/Scout organisations a lot is done to keep children safe. As has been pointed out earlier if you want your daughter/son to join you would be most welcome as a parent helper to be present at camp or group nights where you can see for yourself what is done.

Mercy.

YY Peterson. He's been in his field for decades and does lots of work on authoritarian regimes. I was quite disappointed by some of his more anti feminism stuff.

"Of course children are not stupid and if they feel threatened by a situation will show it in some way."

Outabout genuine question, are you taking the piss?

You are asserting that children would/should indicate if they feel threatened? You do know thousands of children are abused all the time? You've read about the footballing coaches? The entertainers? You know the term grooming?

vulamort your post at 11.08 is excellent. And encapsulates one of the reasons I won't be encouraging my 12 year old DD to stay in Guides (she's getting bored, as she does from time to time).

In the past I encouraged her to stay. An all female (didn''t know there were male helpers) environment seemed a very empowering place.

Now so I know that entry to this places is based on gender not sex I actually cannot see such great opportunities in being part of it. True her local group may be all female but the ethos has changed.

Sadly (in a way, as its original aims were great) I don't believe GG will exist for the next generation in the UK. It will lose its unique point.

So imagine the hoo bar if I infiltrates a trans only swim club, demanding to be let in (as a non trans women). I would not do it. Trans people deserve the right to collect together for activities.

Girls and women do they deserve that right? Apparently not! Thanks GG!

So maybe one day no rape survivors centre, women's swim club, eyc will exist, no group or activity will ever be able to be all female.

And the next generation of girls and women will ask is why. Because males won't let us.

Milk "However I do think that the way forward is to keep sex segregation where it matters, but stop this nonsense of sex segregation where it doesn't."

Who gets to decide where it doesn't matter? You? Men? People who don't have daughters?

Letting boys in so they can learn? Boys mix with girls plenty. Know what some boys learn? How to intimidate girls. I can't link as on phone but harassment of girls in schools is very high. Not all schools, not all boys, but still, think those boys are learning anything?

"And the next generation of girls and women will ask is why. Because males won't let us"

And because most females accept male authority and don't realise what's at stake, so didn't stand up against it.

Precisely AskBasil it's tragic.

Outabout genuine question, are you taking the piss?
No.
As I have stated GG/Scouts is a 'controlled' environment. If the child does not want to go they will express it some way to understanding parents.
If at GG/Scouts they do not interact with the others it will be noted and the leaders will speak together and with the parents at the earliest opportunity to try and establish why.
Yes grooming and abuse happens and it should be stamped out but boys and girls learning skills together at Scouts for example will also teach them wider life skills and appreciation of opposite views.
From the comment about a DD of 12 not wanting to stay at GG, maybe Scouts or a different GG group would offer her more to interest her?
Understanding is key, not segregation.

Approximately 66m people in the UK
Approximately 33m are Boys and men
I bet Of this 33m 1% are trans.
This 1% are changing the law for the 33m girls and women. Just not right. Why do they have so much influence? Is it trendy, lefty? I really don't know but something has gone wrong in a democratic society.

Fuck sake out, that's the biggest load of bollocks I have ever read

"Yes grooming and abuse happens and it should be stamped out but boys and girls learning skills together at Scouts for example will also teach them wider life skills and appreciation of opposite views."

Who cares about grooming and abuse if they get to learn other skills? Your attitude is shocking. I don't know who you are but I sincerely hope you don't have responsibility for children.

"Understanding is key". Understanding of whom? Males?

"If the child does not want to go they will express it some way to understanding parents."

• Really? So is it only children of 'well functioning' families who attend GG? What about the young girls abused in Rotherham? Not from nice Middle Class families. Nobody cared. They were abused for years despite report after report. Would they be allowed into GG?

In the GG, the girls will be fine if they have 'understanding parents'. Right

milk

I'd scroll back and pick some out, but I'm on my phone and I don't find it easy

Thanks for your reply, obviously i would report anyone i saw saying anything like that...but sometimes you can miss the odd post

Regarding DBS checks isn't it the case in Canada and Norway that a fully transitioned person gets a new national identity number. (Equivalent to our NI number) So any DBS check will be pretty pointless as all of the history will have been erased. I understand that the old NAtional identify number is deleted as though the person has died.

Really? How batshit.

I am not, by any means, suggesting that transwomen are all - or even often - sexually attracted to children, but there is no shortage of cases where transwomen have molested, raped and murdered children. See here for some links. These are not the only examples, sadly.

People are cautious of men because it's men, however they identify, who commit 98% of sex offences. No one is frightened of being followed home by a lesbian, ffs.

That's appalling, Hellothereitsme. The same thing is happening in the US. The link I just posted about transwomen sex offenders is from a site called Allison's Law, a feminist site fighting to try to "Ban Rapists & Violent Predators from Changing Legal Gender & Name."

The site is named after Allison Woolbert, a transactivist campaigner and child rapist, who concealed his past under his new name and gender.

Outandabout - actually you're right. Middle class kids will be fine, it'll just be the neglected ones that'll be targeted - phew that's ok then!

Bad language and taking the discussion out of the original context. Not a discussion then.
Hopefully a GG leader or two will correct me if I have said anything out of turn.

Can someone give me an example of when a man has posed as a woman to gain access to female children?

Prawn gave you a link about four posts ago sugar

No - that's someone changing their name and gender to hide previous crimes

Titchy's right, Sugarlightly. I provided a very long list of such cases, which are separate from the Allison Woolbert one. There are lots and lots.

As PPs have said, men who want access to children will do a great deal more than claim to be women.

Scroll down beyond the top headline.

What also pisses me off, is that when a girl is assaulted by a leader, it'll be reported that 'Female guide leader groped my boobs' or similar. There'll be no mention of the trans status of the leader.

I acknowledge that the risk of such an event is very low, although higher than it was before the policy change, but what about the rights of natal girls to have their own space away from natal boys? There's a huge demand for such a space, and GG used to cater for that demand, empowering girls to ignore gender stereotypes and be themselves. Tragically GGUK has decided that actually gender is actually a very real concept, and more important than sex, despite the overwhelming majority of evidence to the contrary.

They won't even need to pretend to be women, Sugarlightly. If they self identify as a woman, that's all that matters and it cannot be questioned.

And it isn't even about potential paedophiles getting access to girls. It's bloody girl guides accepting that men deciding they feel like women, whatever feeling like a woman means, are now also women. I don't know much about girl guides as a parent of boys, but I assume it gives girls a place away from boys, away from gender and sexism, where they can freely explore many different things. And now people who are male, and have grown up with all of the privileges that go with that, are also allowed. It defeats the object.