Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

This puts me off Girl Guides.

676 replies

NormaStanleyFletcher · 19/01/2017 07:29

I always expected Girl Guides to be a fully female environment. And WTF about not telling parents if it isn't?

"Thanks for your email, and taking the time to read our updated equality and diversity policy. If an adult self-identifies as a woman then they are able to undertake all adult roles in guiding including becoming a Leader. This means that they may also, if they wish, make their Promise.

With regards to sleeping arrangements at residential events, it is important to work with the trans individual when organising accommodation rather than making assumptions or arrangements without consulting them. Some people may not feel comfortable sharing accommodation so in this case an alternative option should be provided. As membership of Girlguiding is decided based on gender identity (the way a person self-identifies their gender identity), there is no requirement to provide any documentation to evidence their transition. Please also be advised that it is not best practice to tell parents that a trans person will be attending a residential event.

You may find our Let’s Talk about Gender and Gender Identity resources helpful to support any conversations around this topic, should the need arise. At the back of each document, there are also some links to recommended external sources which will also provide some helpful advice on this.

I hope this is of help, but if you have any further queries, please don’t hesitate to get in touch."

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
GivenupSocialmediaNOTMN · 19/01/2017 11:37

Carefreeee.

So another place where a girl could have gone and spent time with other girls is hijacked by the trans movement and the specialness of female only is eradicated and that's okay?

Why would a trans woman want to be there? It's weird. It's just to validate their pretend womanhood.

Why can't transgender kids and women miss out instead? Why are women and girls always at the bottom of this pile?

Googlebabe · 19/01/2017 11:38

Thanks. Good to know. I will not be letting any child of mine on any overnight sleepovers anywhere. Even the child who claims to be a lesbian. This is one fucked up world we live in where the minority gets to dictate ove the majority. Well, fuck you then.

MilkTwoSugarsThanks · 19/01/2017 11:38

Vulvamort - Thank you very much for that. That does help me.

However I do think that the way forward is to keep sex segregation where it matters, but stop this nonsense of sex segregation where it doesn't.

Why does Guides need to be a "safe space" for girls? Surely the way forward is to welcome the boys, break down the gender bullshit, educate them in equality and make everywhere safe.

BetsyBigNose · 19/01/2017 11:38

I have lurked on MN for almost 10 years, but have never felt the need to create an account until now. I am a married Mother of 2 girls (aged 8 & 9) who are both Brownies. Additionally, I am the Leader of our local Rainbow and Brownie Units.

I would like to reassure parents that regardless of the birth gender or assumed/adopted gender (no offence intended, I am not entirely sure of the correct terms to use here) or sexual orientation of Leaders, they are NEVER allowed to sleep in the same room as the girls, and must always have separate toileting/washing facilities.

Us Leaders take the safety and well being of your daughters as seriously as that of our own children, whilst they are in our care. Please rest assured that we are caring for them and protecting them as closely as we do our own daughters. Please do not allow this one article to put you off enrolling your daughter into Rainbows, Brownies or Guides - these are wonderful opportunities for your daughters to gain valuable, positive, memorable experiences. Plus - parents are pretty much ALWAYS welcome to volunteer to come along as a helper!

If you do have concerns about this issue then please do speak to the Leader of your daughter's unit, or the District Commissioner. They will be more than happy to help in any way that they can - we really are a friendly, accommodating bunch (and please remember that we are all volunteers!)

I do understand the concerns of some of the parents in this thread, but I am sure that by ensuring that the lines of communication are open, we can ensure that the girls are both safe and able to experience the fun that pack holidays bring!

BeyondTheStarryNight · 19/01/2017 11:40

Well no, they could probably get around the 'discrimination' by letting ftt join, i.e. Any female person can be a member, whatever their gender stereotype...

BeyondTheStarryNight · 19/01/2017 11:41

That's in answer to carefreeeeeeee

jellyfrizz · 19/01/2017 11:43

Surely the way forward is to welcome the boys, break down the gender bullshit, educate them in equality and make everywhere safe.

In an ideal world, yes absolutely! Girls wouldn't need to be 'empowered'. But the world is not equal yet and empowering girls is GG whole raison d'etre.

BertrandRussell · 19/01/2017 11:46

"Why does Guides need to be a "safe space" for girls? Surely the way forward is to welcome the boys, break down the gender bullshit, educate them in equality and make everywhere safe."

Well one of the main reasons Guides remained girl only when Scouts changed was that there are girls all over the world-including this country- who would not be allowed for religious or cultural reasons to take part in the Movement if they had to do it alongside boys. And yes, that is wrong, but it's not going to change any time soon. And excluding girls from an outward looking organization where they can mix with people with different ideas is not going to speed up that change.

charlestonchaplin · 19/01/2017 11:50

Hardly any of the Guides leaders are addressing the issue of Transgirls. Perhaps because you cannot give any assurances there?

jellyfrizz · 19/01/2017 11:51

I would like to reassure parents that regardless of the birth gender or assumed/adopted gender (no offence intended, I am not entirely sure of the correct terms to use here) or sexual orientation of Leaders, they are NEVER allowed to sleep in the same room as the girls, and must always have separate toileting/washing facilities.

This is not true. Leaders are never allowed to be a lone adult sleeping in the same room as the girls but as long as there are two or more adults and 2 or more girls everyone can sleep together. This happened on the last camp I went on (organised by GG UK), we were all in one space. It also happens on sleepovers.

I do agree however that GG takes safeguarding extremely seriously.

MercyMyJewels · 19/01/2017 11:55

This is New Normal

Not only do we have to accept adult males and boys being allowed to change our daughters because they identify as women/girls but we are not even allowed to question/complain about it lest we get called transphobic and hateful by (some) other women.

Talk about selling out your own sex.

There will be another Saville like scandal in years to come. Don't say you weren't told.

venusinscorpio · 19/01/2017 11:58

As women we are socialised to pander to men. So that is what is happening, however fantastically empathetic and progressive the virtue signallers think they are.

It never fails to amaze me how little empathy they have towards other women's feelings about it.

GivenupSocialmediaNOTMN · 19/01/2017 12:00

I would without hesitation question the motive of a Transwoman who wanted to be a GG leader.

venusinscorpio · 19/01/2017 12:01

Me too.

venusinscorpio · 19/01/2017 12:02

I'd assume it was to validate their ladyfeeelz rather than because they were a sexual predator though.

feminazi · 19/01/2017 12:06

Yes, it's as if we learned nothing from the Saville crimes Sad

bluesnowdog · 19/01/2017 12:08

I too never post in here. I'm a cub leader (I'm a female) we have boys and girls in cubs. We take them all camping regularly. We also have male leaders. We are SO careful. No adult is EVER allowed to be on their own with the cubs, there are always 2 of us minimum. We do NOT sleep in the same tents, on camp we have our own leaders loos / showers, and those are also male / female split. I don't see the difference between this and scouting where we already cater for everyone and manage to keep all of them safe. Safeguarding training is compulsory and always followed for the protection of the cubs, and indeed our own protection. As an example, if cub who is a boy or a girl can't find their socks (for example), and wants to me to help them look in their tent, I won't go in. What I will do is go and get another leader who will stand at the tent entrance and watch both of us while we look. I think parents don't realise just how very careful we are about all of this.

BeyondTheStarryNight · 19/01/2017 12:08

I feel bad for the poor girl whose period starts while she's away and she unwittingly has to approach a male for assistance. The kind of thing that would make her cringe if she knew, but somehow it's fine because she is being conned into believing the adult has the same biology as her Confused

MercyMyJewels · 19/01/2017 12:09

How would you know though. Predators have been join youth groups to provide access to abuse children for decades. Will wearing a dress and a bit of lipstick prevent some trying? Yes. All? No.

But women and girls will be sacrificed at the altar of Identity politics and virtue signalling.

venusinscorpio · 19/01/2017 12:11

I agree, you wouldn't know.

BeyondTheStarryNight · 19/01/2017 12:11

Well, the dress alone didn't stop the catholic priests...

MercyMyJewels · 19/01/2017 12:12

The Trojan Dress

venusinscorpio · 19/01/2017 12:14

YY Beyond. Or she might be fully aware that the transwoman is a male but have no other choice or be scared of being called a bigot. However much she's had this shitty ideology shoved down her throat at school.

Loopsdefruits · 19/01/2017 12:16

Ok, again with the 'predators could pretend to be trans to get into guiding' why would they need to? Cis men can already be a part of guiding, as unit helpers, and they'd be subject to the same checks as female leaders. Do you think that trans women joining guiding are exempt from DBS checks and safeguarding training?

AskBasil · 19/01/2017 12:19

""Why does Guides need to be a "safe space" for girls?"

Because the rest of the world isn't and for Christ's sake, can't girls have a tiny number of safe spaces left to them?

" Surely the way forward is to welcome the boys, break down the gender bullshit, educate them in equality and make everywhere safe." Yes. When men and boys have stopped raping women and girls. Meanwhile, until then, we need to have proper safeguarding and the response from the guides in the OP, 100% conflicts with proper safeguarding.

I'm glad my DD has no interest in joining the guides. I hope by the time I have a granddaughter, this collective madness will have passed.