To think it's common sense to let a w/c user have the w/c spot

[SparkyStar84]

I've just seen the ruling on disabled people getting priority in disabled spots on buses. Isn't that common sense. What kind of person would deny a w/c user the space because 'pushchair'?
I'm a w/c user it makes it easier in a way to get about with children, though I know some w/c users still have a buggy.
This is about the parents who refuse to move, when asked, by someone who might have an appt or something important to get too. Not saying the parent doesn't. But isn't that the point of foldable buggies over great big travel systems?
It just bugs me that people have had to leave the bus because a parent wouldn't move. As a parent with kids of many ages, also remembering times gone by, the purpose of easy foldable buggies is that you can decamp when on the bus.
Do you think it's an issue that buses need to provide buggy spaces too?

I think this situation has come about because most bus drivers don't want the aggravation of having to argue with selfish buggy using mums. And it is ALWAYS mums that have this sense of selfish entitlement. My partner is a bus driver and one day endured the most vile racist abuse from south London to over Waterloo just becuase he asked a woman to fold her buggy. It was a 20 minute tirade calling him vile racist names saying that if he had children they must all be dead or retarded as he doesn't care about children etc. On and on through the the journey. These days his policy is one of I will not get involved in anything.
The ruling Should have been more emphatic and given bus companies the right to eject buggies through use of police power but I guess that would be a strain on resources. I think the best thing now is for bus companies to adopt the policy that if a buggy user refuses to fold or move then the driver stops the bus and the journey ceases. Let everyone pressure and shame the selfish mum. But judging from the video of the disability campaigners yesterday who faced just such a situation outside the Supreme Court right after the ruling was passed, I fear most people will actually turn their vitriol on the wheel chair user.
I feel so ashamed and angry at society. I just can't imagine there are so many mothers who are so arrogant, ignorant and selfish and entitped.What kind of children are they bringing up? It makes me want to wish that any mum who has every denied a wheelchair user a space by refusing to fold has a child that would need a wheelchair and for that child to be similarly denied a spot one day. But that would be mean of me as the child as innocent in all this.

MommaGee i know, i have done it myself with 3 kids in foldable umbrella buggies, i would move for a wheelchair and i would also fold for a newborn in a bigger pram if i could, but people who have paid their bus fare have as much right as anyone else to a seat really. There's no getting round it, the buggy bays are for buggy's, the wheelchair bays for a wheelchair, if your in the designated wheelchair space then you just have to accept you need to either get off or fold the pram to allow the wheelchair on. They can't just turn the whole of downstairs into a buggy bay, if they do expect the bus fares to go through the roof as that's how they will have to pay for it to change the buses.

nceccoli I agree with that, i was once discharged from hospital and only had my bus fare, went to the bus stop and tried to get on to be met with a kid in the buggy bay with an electric scooter, i thought the bus driver would say shift but he didn't so i stood for a few second's sort of in shock and said can i get in the buggy bay, the kids mother started kicking off and the driver just shrugged and i got off as i couldn't be bothered with the argument which was going to follow and waited for the next one.

I wouldn't expect that chips just meant I'm jealous if you get to sit on your bus, mine and erratic and crappy and busy.

Momma, my routes got one easy access bus an hour and its usually always taken by the time i would get on half way through the journey into town, my DM's service on the same route but starting later on has an easy access bus every 7 minutes.

Because Francis for the millionth time not everyone is able, be it for physical reasons of their own, their child, because it's on the side of a busy main road with several kids, be wise the driver won't wait and frbkly cos it isn't necessary.
There is plenty of spaces for the system to work. Sometimes you're going to be the third buggy a and you fold or wait or walk. Very rarely I'd imagine you'd be the third wheelchair user. If the buggy pusher won't move for the wheelchair user, the driver asks and instructs them to do so using whatever powers their employer gives them alone with peer pressure from the rest of the people o the bus.
It shouldn't include the driver moving the buggy himself, it opens them up too much.

chipsandchilli
You pay to travel, not for a seat. Get your facts right.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned so far is shopping trolleys. I often see elderly people sitting in the wheelchair space with them (far more than I do actual wheelchair users).If one refuses to move I wouldn't envy the driver who has to ''shame'' them into moving.

PunkrockerGirl, sorry but for £2.80 if it's not rush hour i would expect a seat, not a bus with the seat's removed for pram bay's.

Another issue I've just thought of (seeing Lauren'scomment above reminded me) is enormous suitcases! Not a problem that's common to many buses I would imagine. But I live quite near an airport and my local bus route goes directly to and from this airport,so inevitably there are a quite a lot of passengers boarding the bus with suitcases. Obviously they are not allowed to leave them in the aisles,and often they are too big/too many of them to put in the luggage rack. So they usually park them in the wheelchair space. I have frequently seen arguments break out because someone won't move a suitcase to make way for a buggy. But thankfully,I've never yet witnessed one refusing to move for a wheelchair user.

Its called progressed

Progress, where people are having to try and explain to people why it's wrong to choose to put own wants first, to avoid inconvenience for themselves at the expense of the needs of someone in a wheelchair.

I would argue that is the exact opposite of progress.

Francis no there wouldn't be more space if folded as they still need to go somewhere and some are pretty bulky when folded and dangerous if not in a pen area as they can fall back into aisles.

If you have more than one child they then also take up more seats.

There is no issue on our buses as they don't lose seats they just flip up. Plenty of space for buggies that don't impinge on wheelchairs or oap seats. It is by no means impossible,we're hardly cutting edge or in a wealthy area.

Re space our buses are hourly( rural) people tend to come back with masses of bags of shopping as the fares are extortionate too and the city is a 45 min bus ride so you make it worth your while. Sometimes there is more issue with shopping bags taking up more seat space( you'd be amazed how many people think their ticket entitles them to a seat for their shopping).

To be honest I think the whole system needs looking at and there is a huge health and safety issue.

The amount of bellyaching and pressure for parents re their children being safe in cars with proper car seats and seat belts etc seems to get forgotten with buses.

Our bus goes at great speed on a dual carriage way along a well known accident spot. It's very well saying hand your 3 under 2s to complete strangers round the bus but you don't know their health,strength or inclination to protect said child in an accident. My dd slid off her seat when a driver breaked suddenly whilst I was being vigilant and holding her back. Other customers have bags of shopping,more and more have hot drinks,several are oaps so not that strong themselves..... There are no seatbelts for anybody.

The safest thing in my view are flip ups so you keep responsibility for your own children.

It is common sense but let me tell you as a nanny in London who uses the buses with a massive pram a lot!!
People can be rude and unkind!
I will always get off or move for a wheelchair. it says on the sign that wheelchair users have priority so it is common sense I totally agree.

You don't need to reconfigure the whole lower deck. Just make the front flip ups. it gives you versatility and space.

London buses keep making the pushchair/wheelchair area smaller and smaller I've noticed which is frustrating, you should be able to fit three pushchairs on the space now a days it's two. But ppl have bigger pranks these days to.

We seem to have a lot more space at the front now. As a non buggy user I prefer it. You can hop off and on very quick.

Sorry, haven't rtft, but when i had tiny babies on the bus, i had a pram top on an umbrella foldable chassis. Get on bus, unclip pram top, place pram top on seat, fold chassis. Baby stays asleep, job done. It's not beyond the wit of man. There are hundreds of pushchair types out there, and plenty that are suitable for bus use. People need to think a bit more about function and a bit less about what is fashionable!

And I have also asked the bus driver to wait whilst I sorted all this (albeit it was very quick ) and 90% of the time they will.

chips it doesn't matter what you expect. You're not entitled to a seat, no matter what you pay.
Presumably seats will be available during non rush hour but they may not be.