'Don't you have a boyfriend or husband who can look at that?'

[buzzmoon]

boiler issues, and speaking to a plumber who says the above.

Sorry just because I have a vagina that makes me incapable of doing it myself?

AIBU, or should I have said F you!

I 35% and rising gap is the issue not the subjects. I don't think it is fine to say that it's OK for far less men to go to uni because there are handful of subjects they dominate. The fact still remains in the vast majority they are outnumbered and they are 35% less likely to experience uni that the life style in its self is an education. This will further disadvantage them in future employment with out a dregree of any flavour.

The problem of fewer women in technology type subjects is a separate problem that I don't see how you can link to say it's OK the men are 35% less Likely. It's an absurd argument.

I don't think it is fine to say that it's OK for far less men to go to uni because there are handful of subjects they dominate

The fact still remains in the vast majority they are outnumbered and they are 35% less likely to experience uni that the life style in its self is an education

So WWYD about it? I wonder how many men apply for courses like nursing and education and what their chances are of getting on?

Or should there be more places available for subjects which are more likely to attract men?

What would you suggest?

Goodness, it must be so awful being male in the education system, with them women dominating bloody everything.

I suppose that's also why women vastly out-earn men, and outnumber them at management level in all sectors.

Oh wait......

amispartacus I am just calling you out on your 'What inequality?' Statement. There is clearly an inequality. And your reasons for why there isn't inequality are absurd.

I see you have also played the you can't identify the problem if you haven't got the answers card. It's a very complex problem that is part to do with the failing of the education system and part to do with the different ways boys and girls are socialised and brought up. Of course I haven't got all the answers. That's just an old school deflection tactic.

WellErrr that old chestnut. The gender wage gap thing is a very complex thing and not by far all what some people would make it out to be. People cheery pick the statistics on that too to prove one thing or another. I am sorry the patriarchal boogie man is not hiding round every corner to shatter your hopes and dreams. Yes we have sex inequality everywhere but this gynocentric view of the world does not serve to make this a fairer place for all.

There is clearly an inequality. And your reasons for why there isn't inequality are absurd

Fact: Girls are 35% more likely to go to Uni than boys
Fact: Subjects such as education and nursing have a lot more places than other subjects and these are dominated by females.

I wonder if those 2 facts are related?

I see you have also played the you can't identify the problem if you haven't got the answers card

The answer is obvious:
You could have more places available on subjects such as science and engineering. That would boost the number of males going to Uni.

You could reduce the number of places available for subjects such as nursing and education.

You could encourage males to apply for courses such as nursing and education - so there would be more men on these subjects with lots of people.

amispartacus
I don't really get the point of your posts and I don't understand why you are being so terse 🙄 . I'm very familiar with the stats involved and yes I have 'bothered' to look at the subjects . It widely acknowledged as a serious problem. It's been going on for years but the gender gap is widening year on year at an alarming degree. If you think it's ok then that's up to you.

I'm glad there are programs to encourage girls to study certain male heavy subjects and I also welcome any schemes to encourage boys to go to university.

I'm glad there are programs to encourage girls to study certain male heavy subjects and I also welcome any schemes to encourage boys to go to university

Why do you think that girls are more likely to go to Uni?

Is it because they don't want to, are put off by it, are only likely to apply if they will get in, if they are put off by the subjects?

Or does the fact that there are a lot more places available on subjects that are likely to attract girls than boys - such as nursing and education play any role?

Do you think that boys are put off applying to uni? Or are they just as likely to get in if they apply compared to girls?

Male privilege never ceases to amaze me.

'The patriarchy doesn't exist, and there's no such thing as female inequality, BECAUSE I SAY SO, WOMAN.' I hope the irony is not lost on you.

I wonder if those 2 facts are related?

Not really the places only meet the demands. If far more men where going to uni then the places would be there for them in these other fields. Uni's are big business. The places are not there because men are being failed by society and the education system. The reason why there are so many places on courses popular with females is because far more females than males are being empower and encouraged to go and seek a university education.

Your answer is problematic. It is far more complex than that.

If you create loads of spaces in technology type subjects you will have loads of empty places. Men are not going to university simply because they can't get in. And women are generally not socialised to enjoy/seek education in this field.

If you reduce the number on more traditional female subjects your depriving people of oppertunities to manipulate statistics. That's not fair.

The supply of course places generally fits the demand for places. Universitys are businesses after all. It's not about mandating more places here and less there. You are just being silly.

The answer is not simple. It is very complex. It's start right back to how we raise our children in relation to sex. Its about how our children are educated thought out the system and the messagesaying and encouragement we give them.

WellErrr It all the patriarchy fault. Cause of all life's ills, men. Typical development would female looking to find someone with a bigger privilege top Trump score to look the victim against. God we all love comparing privilege these days. Palm in face time.

Auto text developed world woman

Men are not going to university simply because they can't get in

What do you mean? Do you think that men are being discriminated against?

The supply of course places generally fits the demand for places. Universitys are businesses after all. It's not about mandating more places here and less there. You are just being silly

Love the silly word. You are great at arguing, aren't you.

No - I am just giving some answers to the way you could increase the number of men in a Uni. Of course the demand fits the places needed. So there is a big demand for education and nursing degrees - so lots of places available.

It's start right back to how we raise our children in relation to sex. Its about how our children are educated thought out the system and the message saying and encouragement we give them

What messages do you think boys are getting about university at school?

The education gap between boys and girls at A-Level is the lowest it's been for ages.

Then you've got to look at the effect of apprenticeships.

Then you've got to look at the effect of apprenticeships.

Steering into the skid on this thread...

I work in tertiary education, and the gender gap in apprenticeships is extremely stark. In our area, the number of females in STEM apprenticeships can be counted on both hands, and the number of males in care, personal services and admin is virtually nil.

WellErrr It all the patriarchy fault. Cause of all life's ills, men. Typical development would female looking to find someone with a bigger privilege top Trump score to look the victim against. God we all love comparing privilege these days. Palm in face time.

You've completely lost me.

amispartacus

Discriminated against in education yes. Discriminated against in terms of gender norms again yes. The gender norms is easy to see, just look at the low numbers of male nurses. In education it's more subtle. And I don't think it's part of an evil matriarchall conspiracy or anything like daft like that. I don't claim so matriarchal boogie woman. But education methods have changed over the years. A lot of focus (not knocking it) has been on how to get girls to achieve more. The whole education system is mainly dominated by women who understand girls. Boys are often miss understood. For what ever reason (personally I think a fair bit to do with how boys and girls are socialised) they are different and have different needs. So it is no surprise that generally the educational attainment of girls is higher than boys. For example at my little girls school every assembly I go to about 80% of the certificates are given out to girls. No doubt simply because the girls deserve them. But why are the boys not obtaining these standards? And does that start to reinforced a negative feeling of self worth when it's nearly always the girls getting the praise. I think in general there is a lack of understanding and focus on how to deal with boys and educate in a manor that most engages them. Other research has shown that generally boys and girls respond better to different teaching techniques. I don't think it's an intentional discrimination pre se but more need to be done to understand and encourage boys in education.

I am happy with the word silly. Maybe I could have used a more adult word to mean the same but I stand by my point. The point is the important bit not use of more sophisticated language. I think nit picking at the use of more causal language is clutching at straws a bit.

I am pointing out your 'answers' are flawed and that dispite your claim that the answer is 'obvious' it's not. It's far more complex than you claim.

In society and schools we have a problem with the messages we present boys. Lots of studies have highlighted problems with the way we treat boys. For example they look into this on that The Higher Education Policy Institute report.

I think the gap narrowing is something to be welcomed. It maybe a result that policy is catching up with the research highlighting the gender gap. But this does not disprove the gap (especially across education).

More aprentaships is great news. Like wise we need to encourage more females into them. But of course we are still damaged by traditional gender rolls and conditioning. They would much rather go to uni and get a degree. Boys are I think more encourage by the learning format of an aprentiship. The system may be helping to send men into the arms of the aprentiship system but it is likewise repelling them from the university system.

Darmody completely agree we are struggling to crack these gender norms. Plus i think the learning format of an aprentiship appeals more to boys. It is a shame because we potentialy prevent people for being truly what they want to be. Although likewise I think we mold people into wanting to be in them roles with our gender norms and socialisation. I don't think many female hairdressers go through training wishing they could have been a bin lorry Driver. Likewise I don't think many male builders go through life wishing they could be a care worker. I think our society programs us to diseire set roles rather than force us to do them reluctantly. We are all victims to certain extent of this, me and women. System is not the best for either of us to truly be free.

I am pointing out your 'answers' are flawed and that dispite your claim that the answer is 'obvious' it's not. It's far more complex than you claim

I don't see you coming up with any answers. It would be great if we had more male nurses. Why don't we? Is it because society tells boys that they shouldn't be nurses, that nursing is a woman's job? It probably is.

But why are the boys not obtaining these standards

A great question - why are boys more likely to mess around in class, not to try as hard, not to see education as important as girls do? What messages are they getting from home about education? Do they see education as important?

Is it school's fault? Or is it the messages they get at home?

And does that start to reinforced a negative feeling of self worth when it's nearly always the girls getting the praise

Let me assure you that boys get a lot of praise and reinforcement as well. Awards etc.

But yes - education and the hidden messages are complicated. Society's influence is complicated.

I don't see you coming up with any answers. It would be great if we had more male nurses. Why don't we? Is it because society tells boys that they shouldn't be nurses, that nursing is a woman's job? It probably is.

Exactly. I agree with this statement. But I still don't see how it proves there is equality in 35% less men than women going to uni?

Is it school's fault? Or is it the messages they get at home?

Both, plus the way they are handled in wider society. But the failier in education is not understanding the boys emotional needs, how to handle them and in failing to use educational techniques/format that boys respond best too. The education system is failing boys and the results are a result.

Let me assure you that boys get a lot of praise and reinforcement as well. Awards etc.

I don't know about that. You could tell me the sea is bright yellow if you wanted. But from what I see the awards are given out fairly (rightfully so). But it's mainly the girls because the are behaving and excelling in their studies. Boys are finding it harder because the current makeup of the school environment is better suited to girls. I mean there is plenty of research into why boys are under achiving and it points to things like this.

Anyway early start in the morning
Night all

Agreed, amispartacus. 1Dad, you are ignoring the impact, not only of a less proportionally tiny number of women studying STEM subjects, but also teaching and nursing (newly) becoming graduate-entry - traditionally female dominated unprestigious fields. The lack of prestige and the female dominated-ness aren't unrelated.

But I still don't see how it proves there is equality in 35% less men than women going to uni

You yourself have said that Universities are businesses. That places reflect demand.

Courses like nursing and education have a lot of places available. They are graduate entry now. So it sort of follows that IF there are now lots of places available on courses that are very much more likely to attract women than men, then there it is much more likely that women are more likely to go to uni.

If men were encouraged to take up courses such as education and nursing, then we would see the proportion of men at uni go up. It's not like boys aren't getting the qualifications to go on these courses, is it?

But it's mainly the girls because the are behaving and excelling in their studies

Good behaviour helps all pupils learn in a school.

A concern is that schools are too academic at the moment for some pupils and that the focus on academic subjects comes at a cost for pupils who may not be academically inclined. The narrowing of the curriculum hasn't helped some pupils whose talents may lie elsewhere.

I'm confused, so am I not supposed to be annoyed that I once had to ask someone else in Currys to serve me at the till (because the first man refused to talk to me when I was buying a tablet and rolled his eyes when me and my husband asked him to talk to me) because 35% more women go to university than men? Okay....

My degree educated middle class electrican of a husband manages not to offend people with casual sexism and do his job properly. He also managed to go to uni. So not working class, not sexist and not discriminated against in education because he is male.

Also is in in fact possible that there are less men at uni than women because a far higher percentage of tradespeople are men? So say you have the various route from school, uni, apprenticeships, manual work, tradespeople, retail, office work etc. Maybe more men are going into the trade route because it leads to a jo that can be well paid without going to uni where as women dont feel they have that option? And if we made electrical, building courses etc mandatory degrees like nursing has become, would the balance not shift to be more 50:50?

So is it in fact not that men are being discriminated against, just that they are choosing a different option? And yes I totally agree that as a society we should be encouraging female plasterers and male nurses. But I'm not sure that the balance of who is going to uni is because poor men arent given an equal opportunity, especially when you consider at one point only men went to uni, just that they are less inclined to do so.

And maybe the way to redistruibute the balance isnt to jump on a thread about women coming up against casual sexism and telling us that we should put up with it because not as meany men go to uni. Maybe its by agreeing its part of the problem and educating the next generation of boys and girls that women and men can do exactly the same things in life, not deciding that one gender needs more support than the other....

But the failier in education is not understanding the boys emotional needs, how to handle them and in failing to use educational techniques/format that boys respond best too. The education system is failing boys and the results are a result.

Boys are finding it harder because the current makeup of the school environment is better suited to girls. I mean there is plenty of research into why boys are under achiving and it points to things like this.

Plenty of research suggests that hardly any boys pursue Nursing degrees because the current school/education system is more geared towards girls? Really? Care to link to this research?

Or are you trying to connect Thing You Think is Disadvantaging Boys A with Thing You Think Is Proof of Boys Being Disadvantaged B, and struggling to understand the holes being picked in your points?

I don't recall hearing about loads of boys going into Nursing back when the education system was geared exclusively towards boys, do you?

See this pisses me off... I'm a qualified electrical and mechanical engineer and I hate men assuming I can't fix something! In fact, DP is usually the one fixing the tea while I'm fixing lights, cables, bathroom fan etc!

I had similar with my boiler. Was shown how to remove the front panel, attach water hose, adjust valve, increase pressure. Was told usually they recommend doing it all in reverse once pressure was OK but as I am female, I should leave it all like that.

He was surprised at my reaction.

Just because someone went to a grammar school and indubitably studied Latin does not convert them into Mister Right On. The original quote the OP used is the kind of thing I would delight in putting in a one star review on checkatrade dot com